From MidCurrent comes this little tidbit - yet another paper cut among the thousands suffered by the Winston Fly Rod Company since their bamboo rod builders left in a huff.
This one’s a TV show about the “Boo boys” - the four bamboo rod building luminaries who left (or were driven from) Winston, who are making noises about firing up their own “Sweet Grass Rods” bamboo fly rod business.
From MidCurrent:
Jerry Kustich was kind enough to provide us with details on the showings of Barrett Productions’ “Return of the Booboys,” which first appears on TV’s Versus channel this Friday at 10:30 PM EST. Here are the show times:
1/19/07 10:30-11:00 PM
1/20/07 2:30-3:00 AM
1/20/07 1:00-1:30 PM
1/22/07 11:30-12:00 PMAs Versus says about the show: “Known far and wide in the cane world as The Booboys, Glenn Brackett, Jerry Kustich, Jeff Walker and Wayne Maca served for years as designers and builders of the highly coveted R.L. Winston bamboo rods. Now they’ve started a bamboo venture of their own, but one thing hasn’t changed: they still make time to hit the water around their hometown of Twin Bridges, Montana.”
How Bad Can it be for Winston?
A sober review of the production numbers, revenues, costs and work habits of the old Winston Bamboo Rod shop suggests why Winston’s probably happy to see the four go, but in one of those “Perception vs Reality” moments, Winston bungled the affair so badly it’s going to haunt them for years.
There have been numerous negative articles in the mainstream media (like this one in the Missoulian and this in the Billings Gazette), and even a rare bit of negative “hit” journalism from one of the fly fishing media.
In the online message boards - where reason rarely trumps emotion - the torrent of venom directed at Winston Rods boggled the mind.
Winston even had to deal with negative comments from the Winston partisans on their own message board - the PR Nightmare Scenario, especially given their largely ineffective response.
(Lesson for the industry? Try a blog next time, and at least pretend to be gracious.)
People that - only weeks before - were non-committal about Winston’s stratospherically-priced bamboo rods now loudly embraced the Brackett-built models as among the best ever crafted, promising to order one from the Sweetgrass shop as soon as they were built.
The rumors flew (and accepted as fact) that Winston was moving bamboo production to China (not true), and that two graphite rod builders were [gasp] going to build the Winston rods (true, but the biggest concern was probably that they’d get it right).
Is there an end in sight?
Nope. Congratulations Winston; you successfully turned a business molehill into a public relations mountain.
Even the announcement of Winston’s new high-tech Web site - complete with their own video upload and streaming service - never got any traction even in the manufacturer-friendly fly fishing media.
Is this truly a disaster for the Winston Rod Company? It’s clearly a PR nightmare, but I doubt the business will suffer a lasting hit.
Freeing themselves from a probably unprofitable group of rodmakers won’t hurt the bottom line, and no one but Winston (and perhaps a few of their bigger dealers) knows if the bad publicity truly damaged graphite rod sales (I doubt it).
Still, the whole affair should become a “Don’t Do This” case study for the Public Relations Textbooks.
What’s Up With the Undergrounders?
So what’s the vibe on the Underground? Is the Winston Rod Company a bunch of mouth-breathing, bamboo-hating fascists who stomp baby bunnies for fun?
Or simply a bunch of PR-illiterate mokes who got caught making the right decision in the wrong way?
Are the great unwashed masses buying fewer (or more) Winston graphite/boron/unobtanium rods as a result?
The Underground’s waiting…
[tags]fly fishing, bamboo, bamboo fly rod, winston rod company, winston, glenn brackett, boo boys, pr, public relations, midcurrent[/tags]
{ 11 comments… read them below or add one }
Bastard Mike 01.18.07 at 11:27 am
Look…the guy running Winston lives in Malibu. Prolly a numbers cruncher. Gawd bless him.
The labor force in Twin Bridges can’t be much different than China. Just good folks trying to do the best they can for whatever they can get for it. At least they have (had) a job.
The cruncher still wasn’t getting his profit margin.
What the cruncher needs to watch out for now is the BooBro’s (LOL) putting out the equivilent rod for half the price. Certainly not that it can’t or won’t be done. It will. But it will hurt Brackett AND Winston in the long run…I think…
If you bought a Winston bamboo last year for 3 grand and find out that Mr. Brackett is now selling that rod (yes, the same rod)for 1500 bucks, you just found out you got screwed.
Glen would have screwed himself too maybe.
All those good folks who bought his 3 grand rods now can get them for half. If he can make them now for 1500 bucks why weren’t they that much last year? Is that what all his experience amounts to?
Why didn’t he bail before the price got that high if he was only watching out for the quality and integrity of the rods?
Was it simply because they told him “do this because we want it?”
Granted it would be insane, IMHO, to by a 3 grand rod from some newbys but it could have been avoided a generation ago. Winstons would be priced competively with current fine makers, but they chose to gamble on setting themselves apart. They lost.
There really was NO way for Winston to win this little deal. I’m also pretty sure that they hope all the hoopla will die before they do.
I’m almost certain that the Winston Co had been considering this for some time before they put the club to Brackett.
They could have slipped in a couple of “helpers” a year or more back and they would be up and running…kind of… but.
The new guys would likely have been tainted and wanted to go fish in the afternoon as well as the other guuys did and still no work would have gotten done. They probably would have left when Brackett did to.
Now to me, Winston bamboo has always been ’somewhat’ over-rated. Milled, not hand planed, mediocre tapers, questionable finishing methods, but hey!…that’s just me!
Just why the hell did it take four or five guys to make a freaking bamboo rod? No wonder it cost 3 grand!
AND…just why the hell would anyone pay 3 grand for a bamboo rod unless of course it was the end of the search for the Holy Grail? Do youse guys really think that Winston Rods were EVER the Holy Grail?
You do? Really?
OK!
Mike
Larry Swearingen 01.18.07 at 12:42 pm
First off I don’t think the “Boo Boys” left in a “huff.”
I think they left in their own trucks.
Second…. I hate the term “boo” as a shortening of bamboo. Much prefer “cane.”
Third… If Winston really wants to continue to sell cane rods I think they will find it tough given the PR
nightmare that they have promulgated. That’s a real word. Look it up.
Fourth… Is Sweetgrass really going to sell bamboo rods for $1500 ? I would think they would price themselves up closer to Per Brandin or ???
Larry Swearingen
rriver 01.18.07 at 1:23 pm
The Winston “thing” seems very strange to me. I think people buy bamboo rods because they think they are getting a rod made by a craftsman, that has the some of the soul of the maker. It if becomes a company with just a name, you should probably buy a Sage, and forget bamboo. With the loss of Brackett, this is gone. I have never seen a Winston rod - who buys them anyway?
Myself I prefer to buy my bamboo from the person who is going to make the rod, and I have a sample of two to cast, unless I have one already made that I can cast a bit. A rod maker also gets points for how crappy his web site is, or how little it is updated. I think this follows Jim Harrison’s southern barbecue rule - only eat at places with hand made signs. If a rod maker has a cool website, this is a red flag, unless somebody did it for him.
This whole bamboo thing is getting wierd. I have some Orvis rods (not bamboo) and I love them. $3,750 for a 150th Anniversary bamboo rod? I don’t think so. This makes the LL Bean 95th at $2,595 seem like a deal.
I hope the working craftsman just try to keep making good rods and are not seduced by this craziness. How big is the high end market? How many rods can the Japanese fit in those little houses anyway? The Singaporeans have to have a limit too. When I see Indians on Orchard road selling customs suits and bamboo rods made in 6 hours, I’m going to kill myself.
- rriver
Bastard Mike 01.19.07 at 7:05 am
It’s good to see we all have a few beers around noon before we start posting! LOL It’s around noon somewhere!
Oh…you don’t? Sorry…
Dammit Larry, I have to agree with everything you said. I hate that!
As to the price, I would guess they will actually be in the 2 grand range, but I’m just supposin’…
RRiver,
Excuse me while I redo my website. I thought it was tacky enough, but I see there’s room for improvement! LOL
Mike
Tom Chandler 01.19.07 at 9:20 am
Lots of thought here (drunken thought, but thought).
I think the whole gig was a clusterfuck from the start. It’s hard to twist the numbers in any way that suggests Winston was making money on bamboo rods - even at $3K per.
Breaking even was the best they could do, but I’ll bet they wanted some measure of production so they could claim a connection to the early Winston company, and also have those pretty rods available for advertising uses.
I’m sure they think they can accomplish that with fewer builders (preferably the kind that didn’t take the afternoon off every time someone showed up with a beer or holding a Green Drake), and this is how it all played out.
Messy indeed. Sure, it might hurt bamboo rod sales, but I doubt they care - they’d rather build fewer bamboo rods.
What matters is whether their PR mashup impacts plastic rod sales…
ririver 01.19.07 at 10:03 am
Mike, as in Shay? Your website already sucks. No prices, models or anything useful to someone trying to buy a rod. You pass with flying colors.
I hope you understand this is a compliment …
- rriver
Bastard Mike 01.20.07 at 8:40 am
rriver,
Yeah, you nailed me, time to change me moniker again…
I understand that responding to a response on a blog post seems to be poor etiquette, but look at who you’re dealing with and bare with me…
The prices actually ARE listed but they are no longer valid as I haven’t updated my site. You would need to wade through the whole damn mess to find them though. I offer no ‘models’ as I can’t really seem to improve on what old dead guys have done in the past. I’m just as happy whittling away on a piece of bamboo to make an 8014 GS as make my own puny 6′6″ 2wt, 1wt or ought wt.
I don’t care as long as you get what you want and I’m planing! As long as we’re both happy what does it matter?
I feel I should keep this in the same vane as the original post…so, ‘F’ Winston, Good luck Glenn!
Bastard Shay
Tom Chandler 01.20.07 at 9:34 am
You Bastard! I’m going to build a slick, glossy site for you (I’ll find a better domain name) and then populate with a bunch of pompous, self-aggrandizing statements about your place among the pantheon of rod building’s greatest names.
That’ll show you…
Bastard Mike 01.20.07 at 10:34 am
I’m freaking shaking in me boots!
Don’t do it! I’ve worked hard to achieve this anomynity!
I’m just a poor puny rodmaker! Don’t pick on me!
F Winston, Good luck Glenn!
Bastard Mike
mr.blur 01.23.07 at 9:39 am
bastard mike,
I’ve fond memories discussing this very issue over too many beers in yer shop.
get to work!
Zac 06.10.08 at 5:29 pm
A few comments to help the debate:
When the Boo Boys were at Winston, they did two glueing sessions a week, which would lead to, from 20-30 finished rods by week’s end. Divide this by about five builders (not including the guide-wrapper and rod signer)and you have around 5 rods a week per builder. That includes time taken to drink a beer or three, and fish when a good hatch was on. A hand-planer can hope for about one rod a week. That is another reason several sets of hands are needed to build quality, machined rods. The rod builder takes on a more involved role in quality control, and is assigned more specific jobs. Not every strip comes out perfectly from the machine, but many do. The shreded nodes and chipped strips need to be found and discarded. The intricacies of setting the machine up to achieve perfect strips takes years of practice.
The rods produced by Sweetgrass are not the exact same rods produced by the same guys at Winston. They have been designing and field-testing new tapers since the split. Bracket has been doing most the research and design, and has tapers the Boo Boys refer to as “more Western.” Take that how you wish, but in my opinion, they are slightly quicker actions in general.
Also, Jerry Kustich has been doing more work on his Pentagon rods, which were not widely accepted at Winston. I cast an older and more recent model while visiting the Sweetgrass shop last summer. Both were 5 wt. rods about 7.5′ long (I don’t remember the exact dimensions). I had never cast a Pent. rod, but could not believe my soul while casting the rods on the Beaverhead, behind the shop. A buddy of mine and I cast both rods and found them to be very responsive, crisp, lightweight and strong rods.
Another variation in production is Sweetgrass pairs strips from the same culm of bamboo across from each other, whereas Winston just throws the strips in a pile and picks strips based on node spacing, not on which culm it came from. Sweetgrass is putting Agate stripping guides on thier rods–cosmetic for sure, but different. Also, they are using nickel-silver ferrules instead of the Duronz used at Winston.
The varnish on both Winston and Sweetgrass rods are sprayed on. This technique takes much practice to perfect, but ends in a thinner, lighter, yet durable finish.
I own a Winston, 8′3″, 3 pc., 5 wt. built by Jeff Walker while at Winston. I love the rod and bought it with money I earned tying flies, guiding and working at a power plant (blue collar work for sure, eh). Priorities end up leading to the purchase of a fly rod (I haven’t been married, don’t have kids and live for fly fishing). I showed the rod to a local shop that had just sold a Winston bamboo rod built by the new generation of makers. They said the varnish, and wraps on my rod were far better than that of the newer rod. I don’t know, not having seen the new rod. That’s what they said.
But, my experience with the new Winston rods was at the Fly Tackle Dealer show two years ago, in Denver. I was checking out the rack of bamboo in the Winston booth and asked about the year of manufacture for each of the rods (answers were given with a hint of skepticism). All were Bracket era rods, except one, which was built by the new guys. I looked each rod over from but to tip. The biggest blemish on the rods was a 1/16″ gap in the wrapping of a snake guide on the rod built by the new guys. I don’t know the model number, but the gap surprised me. I thought they’d be more careful.
It isn’t real scientific, but the humor, care and love of a craftsman goes in to every rod. Choices by the CEO and board at Winston led to an unfavorable working condition for the Boo Boys. Glen grew up with Winston and has been instrumental in the company’s development. I can’t speak for the Boys, but I do know it wasn’t an easy decision and each of their lives has changed drastically. I have been to the Sweetgrass shop several times since they got the doors open and have been fortunate to fish with Jerry one fine evening, on the Beaverhead. They are some of the most caring, talented, helpful and loving human beings I have met. Every strip in every rod is thoughtfully examined, and every rod has gone through each of the Boo Boys’ hands–more than a hundred combined years of experience (or was it 80?). The history of production rod building pumps through their veins.
I won’t debate the hand-planed vs. machined rod argument, as I own both and love both kinds, and build rods myself, from the culm and hand plane them. But I will say that every rod is the end result of care, knowledge and skill of that builder(s). Buy any one you want to–saving for as long as is needed.
Glen has told me he wishes the best to Winston and hopes the new guys do a wonderful job–and they most certainly will with more experience. He also said he doesn’t see himself as the best builder out there, as there are many builders producing great rods.
Thought I’d share some of my experience with Sweetgrass and the Boo Boys. Hope it helps.