I’m writing this from the dreaded Internet, which - according to a writer on the muddied waters of the Fly Fisherman message board - is responsible for a decline in article payments to fly fishing writers everywhere.
Instead of stating the obvious - that popular FF magazines are endlessly recycling the same old stories and using wannabes willing to write for fly line cleaner - he blamed the Internet, comparing reading free online information to receiving medical help from amateurs instead of doctors.
Zing! This conversation has now spread to this post on the rarely reserved Ass Hooked Whitey blog, but I thought I’d get to the bottom of the matter with the Trout Underground readers, whose literary taste simply cannot be questioned.
Is it the Internet? Or do most FF magazines just suck?
As for me, most of my FF magazine subscriptions lapsed years ago. They’d become bathroom reading, and then not even that. So little of their editorial content focuses on the fly fishing experience - and so much of it is vacuous how-to written by wannabes and parking lot experts.
I don’t care about the latest nymphing techniques. I don’t need to know about the hottest, four-figure-a-week fishing lodge. And worse, much of today’s magazine content is simply PR in disguise: product information fronted by manufacturers; destination information fronted by lodges and travel agencies; river kiss-and-tells fronted by guides and outfitters… you get the picture.
I still read Fly Rod & Reel (for Gierach, Williams and Norman in that order). And the Drake - despite the attitude - is at least original. Grey’s? A little stilted for me.
So what’s your take? Is the Internet destroying fly fishing magazines? Or are they destroying themselves? Are you buying fewer magazines and books because of the Internet?
And remember our rule; no lists. Tell us what you think and why. See you at the magazine counter, Tom Chandler.
{ 42 comments… read them below or add one }
For me personally, the Internet has not killed mags (I still do tend to subscribe to a few). I think what the Internet has done is to “expose” those mags that simply don’t cut it in terms of content (real practical advice, real honest reviews, etc.). When I’m looking for real advice (reviews, etc.) I don’t look to a magazine, I look at sights such as this and forums where I can gather a wealth of real world, real user data. I agree as you stated, Tom, that so many of the magazines serve as product marketing vehicles (how many “reviews” have I read that simply seem to reiterate information from a product catalog as opposed to offering something of real value to the reader?).
I currently subscribe to one fly tying magazine and when I do purchase other publications I seem to find myself looking a the ads more than the articles. The thing that I have gotten most from the “net” is a sense of community with my fellow anglers and bloggers. One of the best parts about blogging about fly fishing is seeing what the other bloggers have to say about our sport. To date I have not had a single conversation with a page in a magazine. Through blogging and my website I have met magazine publishers, professional writers, fishing industry reps, rod builders, and anglers from across the globe. These are life long contacts that a magazine cannot provide.
I get Fly Fishing and Tying Journal because it is the least political, and it has the Fly Tying contest, which I like to enter. Also Fly Tyer.
I buy many books, and often articles in the magazine are taken from published books by the same author. I find that annoying.
I guess I read them for the fly tying ideas. I’m beyond the “how to” stage and prose are usually not very good.
Interesting that two of you mentioned fly tying. I spoke with Ed Engle earlier in the year, and he said that fly tying books are typically among the best/most reliable sellers in the book market.
He expected his “Tying Small Flies” book to outsell its companion “Fishing Small Flies.” That surprised me (I think it’s far easier to tie small flies than it is to fish them). I own both books and while the tying book is nice, I feel the “Fishing…” title is far superior.
Anyway, don’t let me sidetrack the discussion. I’m very interested in hearing from more folks…
I guess I am going to side track, but Engle’s book made tying small easy for me, though I have both. “Tying Small Flies” is used alot, and the “Fishing Small Flies” is not, though maybe I should re-read it. It seemed too obvious, but that could me not reading it with an open mind.
- rriver
I want to start by saying I enjoy reading your blog. I would say I spend a considerable amount of time on the net and some of that time is reading blogs such as this. On the other hand, I would be lost without a copy of the latest Northwest Fly Fisher. I feel it has quality content and can recall enjoying the prose of at least a couple of the writers. I agree, most national publications care to much for PR and not the sport itself and given the choice I’d rather catch up online and give my magazine box a rest but this mag rocks. Good pictures, good writing, a local focus. Oh, and Northwest means Northern Cal as well.
Chad
One more thing. None of us are past the how-to stage. Unless you’re done learning new things.
Chad;
Thanks for the great comments. I think Northwest Fly often distinguishes itself with its photography (they’ve done a good job of holding the line against the low-rez digital that’s infiltrated some of the other magazines).
However, I’m penalizing them for the following anxiety-related reason; they showcase a lot of rivers I haven’t fished and obviously need to. Sad, really.
My problem with the “how-to” is the endless repetition of the same informaton packaged slightly differently.
Honestly, if I see one more “revolutionary” nymphing technique - that’s a simple departure from every other nymphing technique - then something small and furry’s going to die.
I get four fly-fishing mags.
Fly Rod & Reel - Basically to read Gierach and Williams. If they both left, I’d let my subscription lapse and not miss it.
Northwest Fly Fishing - This is my favorite mag. Their photography is outstanding and they really don’t do a lot of “how to” articles. Most of their articles showcase a river, lake, etc. and have good basic info for that location. Effective fly patterns, best times to fish there, etc.
CA FlyFisher - Local rag that is an enjoyable read. The newspaper type format takes away from the photography, and the advertising is a bit on the heavy side but I guess you have to take the good with the bad.
Fly Tyer - I read this for the fly tying ideas and tips, uses of new materials, etc. more than anything.
Brian
Though I don’t subscribe to either, Flyfishing and Tying Journal and Northwest Flyfishing are pretty much the only flyfishing magazines that I purchase and read on a regular basis. The first because Dave Hughes is the editor and since he took over that position has greatly upgraded the content including an especially well written article on nymphing techniques written by Ed Engle. As TC mentioned Northwest Flyfishing does have great photo essays. In addition to the photography there are excellent regular articles by Jack Berryman on notable figures in Western flyfishing history and John Shewey on innovative fly tiers.
Chad, by “how to stage” I meant that the magazines I assume are more oriented to the beginner fly fisher who fishes around 18 days per year (the average listed by the industry). I fly fish 200+ days a year, so I tend to pick up my tips from other people who fish a lot. Other anglers tend to be good for a few tips, as everyone seems to figure out a few things the rest of us have not, and we also have our own to share.
- rriver
I write for several of the magazines on a semi-regular basis, yet become more disenchanted with them all the time. You would probably be surprised with the editorial chaos. A mediochre writer that can provide photographs stands an excellent chance of getting his work accepted. It cuts down on the work for the editor. It’s also more cost effective because it barely moves the price offered to the writer. I’ve had a single photo and an article/photo package published in the same magazine within a few issues and been paid the same for both.
Many of the articles I read are clearly written by guys with more time at the keyboard than on the water and seem to be most concerned with landing the assignment. Perhaps the thing that scares me most is that some of the guys really believe they invented these techniques. Sorry, but don’t tie a Woolly Bugger in a new color and rename it like it’s completely original. In my opinion the most useful articles are those that are concise and address things which are often done incorrectly or might be done more efficiently. Articles that describe once in a life time conditions or “decode” conditions specific to one location are pretty useless.
Ian,
Couldn’t have said it better myself. I frankly can’t remember the last time I found any helpful info in the mags that I hadn’t already stumbled across on-line. Tom, I very much enjoy your site and am a regular over on Clarks cane board as well. Blogs work best iMO not so much as online diaries but portals to interesting ideas about the sport. This sight accomplishes both very well
On the Engle tangent I have to say I learned more about fishing small flies than tying em in his “Tying” volume. I have both books and have always enjoyed his take……..stream tested and like many I’m guessing have seen thoseideas make me a better fisher.
Hoping to get my hand on a Reams 8′3 4wt later in the month to try…….thanks again…….I look in here quite often
Here I go again (beat me with a stick if I need it).
Engle’s chapter on thread is worth the price of the book. I have every color of gudebrod size 14 there is.
- rriver
Just a thought but it sounds to me like the fly fishing internet community could put out one heck of a great print (or online)fly fishing magazine. I have often wondered what could happen if all of us free spirits pooled our creative thinking and geographical knowledge and worked on a common project. Any rich investor types reading this?
Thread hugger.
It’s great to have an insider’s perspective (Ian). He’s often in the magazines and has written three books. He self-published his last effort, removing himself from the reach of what amounts to a fast-becoming-obsolete publishing hieracrchy (my words, not his).
Murdock;
I have a different vision - one that’s far more interesting than a magazine (print or online).
JUST AN FYI…
If you folks want to add links or small photos (nothing wider than 350 pixels please) to comments, just write a few words and then click the “Edit This” link next to your name and the date/time. It should take you to a “rich” editor (at least mine does) where you can add stuff.
I think part of the issue is how a magazine positions itself. If it is a “service” magazine, then the editors are more likely to focus on that aspect and load up on how-to stuff. Unfortunately, ideas get recycled, and not just in fishing. Look at a golf magazine–you’ll see the same “retool your swing” article at least five times a year. Look at every men’s fitness magazine–Seven minute abs! Washboard stomach in 420 seconds! Improve your core working only during commercials!–the same idea repackaged. Now the big thing is lists–”13 Ways to Bigger Bass” “The Ten Best Secret Trout Streams in America” “Seven Must-Have Flies” “17 Best Guides in Fishing.” Then in the article there’s a paragraph on each one.
There’s a place for service–as evidenced by the many readers of the tying magazines– but what gets lost in that formula is the good read. I am convinced that people will still actually read an article just for the sake of a good story or an entertaining read (Tom’s post about fly fishing writers that overwhelmingly listed Geirach and McGuane seems to support that), that it still has value even though it doesn’t tell the reader how to do something. As a magazine editor by trade (but not for any of the fly fishing pubs) I am always battling my boss about this with non-service related features. The question ingrained in the editorial culture of magazines is “what does the reader get out of it?” Apparently, sometimes just a good read isn’t good enough.
I think fishing mags are dying of natural causes. Most fishing tips and techniques have always been gleaned from the river or around the campfire. Fishing mags were,for me, the only place to share personal experience with people other than my own small circle. With the advent of forums and blogs, the mags became thicker, glossier and less meaningful. If I can’t find info I need from a forum,blog or at the fly shop, or if I need a detailed presentation,I buy a book. Fishing mags had their day but now seem more loyal to their advertisers than their subscribers.I visit this blog and others for fly fishing stories and info and spend my subscription money on hard hitting news mags like The Onion.
I regret subscribing to the mainstream flyfishing magazines. I am reminded of the early 80’s when any author worth his salt insisted on using latin to describe any mayfly he encountered.
Current publications seem to be headed back to the effete days where all good fishing is accompanied by ” ..a robust cabernet, silky, but with oaken overtones.”
FlyFisherman magazine is the worst of the offenders. It typically devotes its main article to some fishing venue that is on another continent, and will require you to make small talk with Paris Hilton…
The Internet is for fishermen. Blogging and the like are wonderful tools for the no-nonsense, foul smelling, unshaven louts, that hold the sport above all else.
It is a logical and much needed migration - let Ziff Davis pander to the monied gentry, I prefer to read the stalwarts that dine on mangled tuna sandwiches - pulled from a vest pocket in midstream.
….and TC..er, that odd smell in your car? Methinks it is your sandwich, forgotten …
Ok, Barton, who is going to clean the coffee off my key board? I guess the Orvis ads for 18 million dollar fly fishing ranches show us where the sport might be going.
I have an extra sandwhich if anyone wants one, but I think I sat on it.
- rriver
FishingJones is right; The “Ten ways to get better looking using paperclips” style of article is extremely common nowadays, and while it’s very effective from a sales perspective, it’s also typically an inch deep and a mile wide on the information front.
How much of that can anyone read?
This whole discussion was started by Larry Tullis and his complaints about the low, low payments given to “pro” fly fishing writers.
We can argue all we want about the quality of today’s magazines, but the ugly truth is that advertisers will likely continue to switch marketing budgets from print to online media.
When that really picks up steam, editorial budgets will shrink, and magazine payments to writers will get even smaller.
Plus, the advent of Print-on-Demand publishing technologies (POD) will make self-publishing a fly fishing book a very real - and potentially profitable - reality.
It’s not hard to see how an ambitious “professional fly fishing writer” could make more money on the Internet and self-publishing their own books as opposed to relying on fickle magazines largely unconcerned with quality.
Ian Rutter might be a good example of this trend. After two very successful books were published through a regular publisher, Ian went the self-publishing route with his latest book. More risk, but greater reward, and he didn’t have to write another “how-to” book to make the publisher happy.
His guide books are excellent - and his idea for his next book is interesting - but at least the choice is his…
Tuna sandwich? I’m willing to give largely free reign to discussions on this board, but when discussions veer to the subject of the Tuna Sandwich - a concoction clearly inferior to almost any other sandwich - I’ve gotta draw the line.
Then again, the line grows blurry when Paris Hilton is mentioned. Great post Barton, but to put the Tuna Sandwich in terms that you’ll understand, it’s “impudent, yet with overtones of silky wretchedness…”
8-)
Great topic everyone. Lots of new registrations on the site, and I think there’s still lots to be said about this subject.
Will the Internet replace the magazine? I dunno, but I don’t think it will have as much of an effect on book publishing as new printing technologies might…
Looks like self-publishing will be the way to go now with the onset of new printing technologies, etc.
Better chance to make a profit since you’re eliminating the middle man so to speak, and you don’t have to be concerned with the inevitable writing of the “how to” book either.
I think you’ll see some of the national fly-fishing mags become geared more towards a certain class of fly-fishers and those will be the folks who continue to buy subscriptions to that mag.
Fly-Fisherman Magazine started heading down this path a long time ago when every other article they published was about some exotic destination that required one to stay at a lodge costing several thousand $$$/week, etc. Their other articles were the “how to” ones.
It’s been about a decade since my subscription to Fly-Fisherman lapsed and since then I have not even read their magazine in the store aisles, etc.
Brian
Self publishing used to mean no one would publish your sorry excuse for a book, but today - with lots of distribution opening up in narrowly defined markets like fly fishing - a self-published author might just want to retain editorial control and take a shot at making a few more bucks.
One interesting point is that publishers in small markets rarely do any real marketing for you, so writers going the traditional route will be marketing their butts off like the self-published author.
And while I’ve kicked a lot of sand at the leading fly fishing publications, I’m going kick a little more. Could they show a little creativity in their cover design? The same picture of a fly fisher hoisting a hog is so 1990s…
As a WRITER, I got disenchanted with print mags a few years ago because all they cared about was PHOTOS. The last time a mag contacted me and asked for an article, I was offered $500 for feature-length text and $150 per photo…and $600 for a cover. Now, if that article was…say…10,000 words long with 5 photos and a cover shot, I would have been paid $500 for the hard and time consuming part and $1350 for snapping a few digital photos. I am not an outdoor PHOTOGRAPHER. I am an outdoor WRITER. And I found it insulting.
Next, look at the ad space versus original content ratio in most mags. Huge waste of perfectly good trees! How many of you buy a magazine to read the ads to find out what a manufacturer or outfitter has to say about themselves? I know I sure don’t. And then there is all the ad space that goes to OTHER MEDIA…magazines, The Outdoor Channel, VS., ESPN2, books, and videos.
When I was the national ad sales agent for The Outdoors Yellow Pages, my prospects were far more interested in advertising on our website and what we were doing to draw traffic to that website than they were in buying ad space in the printed directory…even the big boys. The publisher just couldn’t grasp that. I had to create an Internet ad program myself, because they didn’t even have or want one. Today, their website still exists. But they only printed one paper directory before shutting it down.
The moral of the story is that I don’t think you can separate the two: Internet or self-inflicted wounds. I think there is a sembiotic relationship between both factors. I think the Internet’s very existence would eventually kill off print media. But I believe the print media industry has hastened their own demise at almost every turn.
For myself, the only outdoor mags I read anymore are the ones that come with my organization memberships. And I quit writing for them about 3 years ago. Fly tying reference manuals are still very useful. Otherwise, I don’t read many books anymore, either. I recently had the opportunity to purchase autographed books, art, or videos from Dave Whitlock at a seminar. I bought his Masters video series on DVD and had him autograph them. I thumbed through all the books before making that decision. I was looking for step-by-step pattern instructions with photos/illustrations. They weren’t there. And since these books didn’t fill the bill for fly tying reference material, I went with the DVDs.
Books make good doorstops and paperweights. I can get everything but static reference manuals on-line. Well, I can get those on-line too, but keeping the computer up and running at the fly tying desk is not as convenient or sensible as a reference manual.
Is this because of the Internet? Well, it wouldn’t be so if the Internet didn’t exist. But that whole discussion is like asking what would we breathe if there wasn’t oxygen, or did the automobile kill the horse business. Technological advances revolutionize business. Thus is the nature of human progress. Anyone bought an 8-track tape lately? Heck yeah it’s because of the Internet! Are paper map sales declining in the face of GPS-based nav computers? You bet! Once upon a time, stone tablet sales declined because of the invention of paper, too.
Thanks for the addition to this thread. Most of the mainstream fly fishing magazines seem to follow a specific formula. In good times, that’s good news for them. When things get tight, it’s bad news.
And things are tight.
As for books, I must disagree. Though I do it every day, reading vast quantities of printed material online isn’t that much fun; the thought of not reading Gierach or McGuane on paper is a little odd to me.
One point about rich media: the barriers to the production of quality video and animation have come down a long, long ways, but they’re still time-intensive.
In a lot of ways, the limiting factor to delivering these media might not be bandwidth, but the ability to produce the stuff…
Your comment on books is sentimental. I was that way for quite some time. But I got over it. I think there will always be a market for books in our lifetimes. And I occassionally still buy one. Then again, I know a bunch of guys who collect antique tractors, too. LOL
I’ve published five books that have a little or a lot to do with fly fishing (Prentice-Hall, Lyons and Burford and the University of Texas Press). I’ve also written dozens of articles, essays and stories on the subject - in Sports Illustrated, Gray’s, and a number of othger magazines. But submitting such material has now reached an incredibly low point, one where a writer needs to beg an often semi-literate editor (I’m actually being polite) to look at his work. At my age I won’t do that. But I have recently completed a fly fishing novella that is without doubt the best work I’ve ever done. I have no idea what to do with it. Are there on-line publishers who take interest in serious writing?
Best regards,
Michael Baughman, Ashland, Oregon
Michael; I’ve received e-mails from a couple writers in the same boat as you. One of the reasons I started the Trout Underground is because I looked into writing a fly fishing essay book, but the economics of it were appalling.
Send me an email (use the contact page on this site). I’m working on an idea.
Tom,
I recently contracted to a mainstream publisher (for a “labor of love” sum) to write a book about my home water. Out next year, I think. My book contains local knowledge and fly patterns that cannot be found anywhere online. Also, the book is easier to operate and requires no button-pushing or typing. It’s much smaller than a laptop and will easily squeeze into a tightly packed fish bag. And it can be used just about anywhere, no power source required.
I’d be interested to know your idea, if you wouldn’t mind sharing it with me.
Congrats on the book. I think you pretty well covered it with the “labor of love” fee — and this on a destination book, which — as a category — tends to sell well.
Fiction, essay books from unknowns tend to sell pretty poorly, and authors “enjoy” a princely royalty in the neighborhood of a $1.50 or so.
Another writer and I have been emailing back and forth about a writer’s site for fly fishing fiction, poetry, essays, etc.
There might be some opportunities for writers in the online age. We’re looking at them. Nothing’s in concrete yet. But feel free to e-mail me.
The magazines cater to the nouveau riche, instant gratification seeking “highbrows” that are fooled by fancy gimmicks and tales of adventure fishing that most cannot afford. Most of the people who are in the know, are too busy fishing and tying to write books and articles and would never in a million years divulge their “secret” patterns and fishing spots. Everyone wants the express to success and these magazines cater to them.
Emmett: You’re largely right, but the rise of the Drake — and the slow-moving-but-interesting evolution going on at Fly Rod & Reel — suggests the industry might be moving. A little.
The thing I have noticed in some fly fishing magazines is the propensity to use the same old dinosaurs, who have been writing for years. I think it refreshing to see a few new names periodically. I know the idea of a writer is to get stable work and a set column, but keep a few good frelancers out there too.
Robert: Almost all the stories in the mainstream magazines are generated by freelancers. A few get regular columns (Gierach, Williams, Tapply, etc), but it would be pretty damned hard to make a living writing fly fishing articles — the money’s pretty basic.
In truth, most of the articles are contributed by folks looking for a different payoff; noteriety, clients for their guide business, book sales, etc.
I think if you’re looking for “new” voices in fly fishing, you’re probably better off online.
The only magazine I really read and enjoy now for the content is Fly Tyer magazine. I pretty much gave up on all the other fly fishing magazines about 5 years ago when fishing forums really started to make their debut on the internet. I felt disconnected to those who wrote for the magazines as the writers didn’t seem to be like ‘me’, where the internet forum people shared more of my fishing interests and experiences. Very few people I know or fish with can stay in 4 star expensive fishing camps on expensive trips around the world. It is these same attributes that also made me steer away from the fly fishing shows on TV. The rising costs of the economy and family responsibilities made me look to more down-to-earth fishing venues that were within my interest and expenses. Virtually everything I do now is all internet based as I don’t have to wait 30 days or 60 days for my information like a magazine. I log on daily to the internet for tips, hints and to share my fishing experiences with others. It’s hard to share with others in a magazine unless you are hires as a writer ….. The internet gives me that availability and pleasure.
Rusty Nitsch
Ohio
Tom, great article you wrote here along with some great and interesting comments. I stumbled on to this looking for something else and I will be back. The biggest things with any of the fishing magazines is the it is yesterdays news, where the internet is today’s news…the fish are biting here now, not, they should be biting here next month. The biggest thing I have seen in the last 10 years it the world is in the “instant gratification” mode. 8 years ago I could come home and check my answer machine, call each of them back and book my trips, now if I don’t have my cell phone on and in range, people will not even leave me a massage, they go to the next number till they talk to someone and can book their trip…”instant gratification”, not who is the best guide for them…get me on the water now! Sad, but that how our life styles have become and will continue to head. In fact I feel that the magazines are on their way out and the internet will take over. Books will last forever…
Gottafly
lee: I think you’ve touched on two similar, but separate issues. Yes, instant gratification is now the norm, though in a marketing sense, it offers you an opportunity.
After all, imagine three guides with largely similar Web sites; the one that’s going to get the business is the one that makes his Internet presence “stickier” — he offers visitors a reason to come back to his Web site (and call) that his competitors don’t.
Prior to the Internet, achieving any sort of brand stickiness was expensive; now it’s cheap.
I think magazines will stick around for a long time. After all, they’ve refined their content formula to appeal the max number of people through trial and error. What the Internet offers is a venue for different voices — writers who aren’t interested in always writing articles beginning with the words “The Ten Best…”
Thanks for the comment.
I’m coming to this kind of late (2 years), but I think there’s another factor that hasn’t been mentioned, and that is overload. I currently only subscribe to CA Fly Fisher, although at various times in the past, I’ve subscribed to all of them except Gray’s.
The problem I have is that there is too much info to really use in a normal season unless I fish for a living (which I don’t). Cooking magzines have the same problem. Can you really use the contents of Bon Appetit or Cooking Illustrated month after month? Only if that’s all you do. In addition to fly fishing and cooking, I also work, play guitar, do wood working, have a family, etc., etc. (not necessarily in that order).
So I see one of the problems of print magazines, as possibly the same as that of the recording industry. The decline in sales is dues to an increase in activities that occupy our time. One has to make decisions. After throwing out month after month of fly fishing mags that I glanced through and possiblyt read the captions under the pictures, I decided it was a poor use of resources. Better to not spend or spend on something I was actually using.
Jim
Jim: Magazines are marketers of information, and while they make that information as attractive as possible, there’s no guarantee any of it has any relevance to your own fly fishing experience - especially if you’re not inclined to travel to exotic locations or buy the latest gear.