While we’re on the subject of rants (a real rarity here at the Underground), we’d like to point out it’s not exactly been a great decade for the PR departments of most corporations (the financial industry recently brought the world economy to its knees, and if you haven’t looked to the Southeast USA lately, you’ve missed the specter of BP work crews burning oil-covered sea turtles alive).
In that environment you’d think corporations would be careful about acting like bullying assholes (are you listening Nestle?), but ahh – you’d think wrong.
Bamboo fly rod builder Jerry Foster received what any sentient being would describe as a threatening, bullying, wholly disrespectful letter from Lockheed-Martin’s lawyer, who apparently attended multiple sessions of “Being a Massive Corporate Bully 101″ while in law school.
When Foster decided to build his own web site (clearly a do-it-yourselfer), he thought long and hard about a domain name, choosing ‘SkunkworksFlyRods.com.’
The skunkworks reference was his homage to the idea of geek types working without interference from fools, marketing and management – an apt description of any number of bamboo rod builders.
I have to point out that Foster’s site makes maximum use of obsolete, slow-loading technology, and will draw the bare minimum of passing web traffic.
All of which apparently meant nothing to the above-mentioned attorney, whose form letter includes warm, fuzzy passages like:
“Here, it appears your use of the Skunkworksflyrods.com domain is in bad faith, and is an attempt to profit off the goodwill of the Skunk Works trademark as you have created a false affiliation, connection, or association between your website and Lockheed Martin, and you have potentially misdirected the unwitting public to your website away from Lockheed Martin’s official Skunk Works website.”
Of course. I mean, there’s a real risk someone headed to Lockheed-Martin’s “skunk works” site for nuclear ICBMs to destroy Iowa will mistakenly end up with a stack of largely non-lethal bamboo fly rods instead.
There’s more:
“On behalf of Lockheed Martin, we hereby demand that you immediately cease and desist from any and all use of skunkworksflyrods.com. We also demand that you take immediate steps to assign and transfer the domain name to Lockheed Martin by XXXX, thereby relinquishing all rights therein.”
Demand This
I understand the concept of protecting intellectual property. I even understand they need to protect their trademark – or lose the right to do so later.
What I don’t understand is the kind of threatening crap evidenced in the letter above. Why not something that doesn’t immediately put the recipient in a place of hating you?
Ms. Boisineau, didn’t your mother teach you any manners at all?
You know, why not a letter starting with: “Hey, your site’s cool and all, but we need to talk.”
Then there are the “demands” that Foster immediately transfer the name to them, with no mention of paying him for the domain reg fees.
Turns out, they do this kind of thing all the time, even earning a nasty note in Wikipedia:
They have filed several challenges against registrants of domain names containing variations on the term under anti-cybersquatting policies, and have lost a case under the .uk domain name dispute resolution service against a company selling cannabis seeds and paraphernalia, which used the word “skunkworks” in its domain name (referring to “Skunk”, a variety of the cannabis plant). Lockheed Martin claimed the company registered the domain in order to disrupt its business and that consumer confusion might result. The respondent company argued that Lockheed “used its size, resources and financial position to employ ‘bullyboy’ tactics against . . . a very small company.”
OK.
It’s likely that Foster’s going to eventually lose this one, being as Lockheed-Martin has a largely inexhaustible supply of your tax dollars to invest beating a bamboo fly rod builder into the dirt.
Still – in an homage to Lockheed Martin’s (and their legal firm’s) poor manners – I just registered “skunkworkssucks.com.”
They’ll enjoy that.
As for the Undergrounders, any legal eagles with intellectual property experience able to offer up some advice – as in would “skunkwerxflyrods.com” fly under the cybersquatting radar?
Any other ideas?
I realize this is a lot of words for a small gig, but you don’t have to listen to the news very long these days to get a little tired of the whole corporate bullying thing.
See you in court, Tom Chandler.






























I’m pretty sure they remove manners and common sense at the same time they take the heart and brain at law school……. On the upside a builder I didn’t yet know about that makes about 126 guys I’d like to buy a rod from now…… and then the older ones …….. I wish Foster well and would think that he’d be able to at least get them to buy the domain out but I suspect the $ wouldn’t be worth it…….On the upside a bamboo butt section makes a really sharp tough stake to drive through the vampires heart if he shows up in person….
Marty(Quote)
Interestingly, the last thing you want to do is say “you want the domain so much, buy it from me.”
They’ll use that as further evidence you’re cyber-squatting (selling a domain for more than its cost).
Still, I wonder if asking them to pay to revamp his web site would fly. After all, he could make this a pain, then give up whenever he wanted, costing them thousands… (it’s what I’d do).
Tom Chandler(Quote)
First, a disclaimer: this is reaching…
Lockheed-Martin holds a variety of trademark registrations on the term “SKUNK WORKS” (two words) and they’ve taken the time to cover military hardware AND most every household item. Except fishing rods.
Second, Jerry uses the name “Skunkworks” which does not contain a space and has several dead registrations.
Did Jerry register his name? And if not, he should, as one word covering the design and manufacture of fishing rods.
Of course, if you were a nasty SOB, you’d proceed to file a claim in small claims court (or whatever other court is as far away and as podunk as you could possibly get) against the law firm for harassment, as well as file a complaint with the California? Bar against the lawyer and/or law firm that wrote the letter.
At least they’ll know you aren’t going to lie down.
MG(Quote)
The LM lawyer suggested the “Skunk Works” vs “skunkworks” thing didn’t matter as spaces aren’t allowed in domain names anyway.
Don’t believe the biz name is registered.
Tom Chandler(Quote)
Seriously? This is what this company is focused on right now?
Maybe we should join forces by registering several hundred http://www.skunkworksfill in nasty comment here].com domains, short their stock, and retire next to a nice trout stream where we could happily fish bamboo all day. Just a thought.
Jonas(Quote)
Okay, this is off topic. Forgive me. But I’ve noticed a preference for bamboo rods on this site. The funny thing is that, although I am a rank newbie, I came into fly fishing via an old bamboo rod. When my aunt told me to clear out my late uncle’s fishing gear, I came across an old bamboo rod with an ancient reel. It intrigued me. So I took it out and thrashed around with 40- year-old fly line on various farm ponds. Then, growing curious about the sport, I checked out a few books on fly fishing and got a casting lesson from a guy I know. Later on I plunked for a graphite rod and modern reel. Even began practicing on the front lawn. I’ve taken some guided trips in Colorado and had some success here in the driftless region of the upper Midwest.
Every now and then, however, I still haul out the old bamboo rod. So I’m curious. I realize that I don’t have the creme de la creme of bamboo rods, but what’s the edge, the advantage? I’ve caught fish on both rods. True, the old bamboo rod provides an exciting bend, but in terms of presentation, what’s the attraction? Is it measurable or simply aesthetics?
Again, forgive me if my question is so utterly neophyte as to engender scorn. Still, I’d appreciate any insights.
Steve(Quote)
What’s the difference, what’s the edge of a Parker side by side shotgun over the latest and greatest synthetic stocked, gas vented 3.5″ 10 gauge shotgun? Truly, there is no difference or edge. Some prefer apples, some oranges. A good bamboo rod is a thing of beauty and precision, perfectly suited for most trout fishing applications other than high-stick nymphing. A graphite rod has the advantage of lighter weight, but as Gierach said — I’m man enough to carry around that extra ounce or two all day long. In some instances that extra weight can actually be an advantage, such as when making multiple short casts, picking pockets as it’s sometime called. The self-weight of a bamboo rod makes it load more readily and thus cast more easily at short distances. As to distance casting, there are no disadvantages to bamboo there either. Several folks have managed to pass the FFF Casting Instructor exam with bamboo rods.
Harry(Quote)
Thanks Harry. I have to admit that I am kind of partial to that old bamboo rod, but mostly for sentimental reasons. It’s what first got me interested in fl;y fishing and I always remember my uncle when I use it.
Steve(Quote)
What Harry said, mostly.
I think bamboo is a pretty efficient rod material for normal range fishing, and I definitely like the way it feels and casts.
In truth, I fish cane and glass because – to my arm (and brain) – they feel like a trout rod is supposed to feel, though there’s precious little hope of backing that up with anything scientific or conclusive.
Tom Chandler(Quote)
“attempt to profit off the goodwill of the Skunk Works trademark”
That’s absurd.
Lockheedmartinflyrods.com
Don(Quote)
If they threaten to take skunkworkssucks.com from you, you can claim they’re infringing on your 1st Amendment rights to freedom of speech. That might slow them down a little. Get the ACLU involved and all that good stuff. Would make for some great negative PR for Lockhead-Martian.
Smarter and Better Looking Brother(Quote)
In truth, I thought of that already. In fact, I considered it it with StopNestleWaters.org, figuring it was a protest site, and there’s little chance someone’s going to diverted by an obviously negative domain if they’re simply looking for the corporate site (an allegation made by Lockheed).
Tom Chandler(Quote)
Didn’t Lockheed-Martin steal the “skunk works” phrase and concept from the cartoon “Li’l Abner”
Guess that would make them experts at “profit off the goodwill of the Skunk Works trademark” and creating a “false affiliation, connection, or association”
You know ExxonMobil and Kellogg’s are able to share the big tiger art work (the “Tiger in your tank” is not “Tony the Tiger”)- you think LM could take it down a notch. Seriously until a bamboo fighter jet takes to the skys where’s the problem?
Maybe they could come together in a team building exercise – Equip me the the fly rods and kick me out of a C-130 flying a low altitude cargo extraction profile over some random remote water. BTW I claim the rights to this totally awesome idea for like ever and ever so don’t go do it and not pay me because I’ll be ticked and get a lawyer.
JK Smith(Quote)
Yes, though in the 60s they changed the name (at the request of the strip’s estate) from “Skonk Works” to Skunk Works.
Great idea, though I believe I’ll let you do the initial testing…
Tom Chandler(Quote)
well, this makes me rethink registering troutoverground.com like i was planning on doing today. might have to rework my business plan.
Guys Flies and Pies(Quote)
Try it, buster. Given the millions in profits made off this domain every month, I’d have the best legal minds in the biz after your ass.
Or the Wonderdog.
And I’m not sure what the distinction is.
Tom Chandler(Quote)
Having graduated from law school, I am able to parse these subtle distinctions. The Wonderdog would be better.
Kentucky Jim(Quote)
Are any of Lockheed Martin’s board members fly fishermen? I know it won’t be easy, but a brief note to one of them might call off the dogs. I’m just sayin…
JeffW(Quote)
At this point, Jerry’s best hope is probably to find something similar (like skunkwerxrods.com) that doesn’t infringe. Making it expensive (or painful) for Lockheed is just a fringe benefit.
Tom Chandler(Quote)
Ha, that’s funny — actually, it’s not a matter of law at all. Lameheep-Martin certainly has a responsibility to protect their TM, but to do so they have to prove bad faith use under ICANN’s UDRP guidelines — and they are:
(i) your domain name is identical or confusingly similar to a trademark or service mark in which the complainant has rights; and
(ii) you have no rights or legitimate interests in respect of the domain name; and
(iii) your domain name has been registered and is being used in bad faith.
In the administrative proceeding, Dungheep-Martin must prove that each of these three elements are present. It seems to me Mr. Foster doesn’t have much to worry about here. This type of crap goes on all the time. Generally, it’s a rookie attorney trying to throw his weight around.
After several years working in the domain name industry, I’d just write him a nice letter back and tell him to go pound sand. Let them file the UDRP, they’ve got no case…and it’s their burden to pay for the panel (anywhere from $2,000 – $10,000).
Cheers,
Greg
Greg(Quote)
Thanks for the info. I’ll pass it along to Jerry. I’m not sure what he’s going to do.
Tom Chandler(Quote)
Sure Tom,
Feel free to put him in touch if he has any questions. I’ve advised on several of these types of infringement issues. Companies like Lockheed-Martin rely on strong-arm tactics to ‘scare’ folks into turning over their domain names. Sending out the C&D letter is standard protocol and is often met with little to no resistance. Most folks see the ‘Howe, Wi, & Screwhem LLC’ legal letterhead and turn the domain over right away out of fear.
In truth, it’s actually Lockheed-Martin’s burden to prove Jerry has ‘absolute’ willful, malicious intent to defraud or deface their brand and/or trademark. That is where the three tiered test comes into play when settling UDRP disputes. Likewise, all three condition have to be met in order for use to be considered ‘bad faith’. Given the content of Jerry’s site, they’d have no chance at proving bad faith.
Likewise, I haven’t run a keyword search, but I would probably guess there is not one mention of Lockheed-Martin anywhere in the HTML markup. Typically websites that do meet the bad faith test ‘spoof’ and mimic legitimate websites and plaster deceptive terms all throughout the HTML.
If Jerry’s worried about a lawsuit, that’s out the window as well. I guess technically speaking, anyone can sue anyone for anything, but since domains are about $8.00 – $15.00, that puts them in the ‘small claims’ category. Small claims isn’t a court of law, it’s a court of equity. Likewise, state law has no jurisdiction over domain disputes given the global nature of the domain names (i.e. world wide web).
Any way you look at the situation, Lockheed-Martin is grasping at straws. I hope Jerry doesn’t fold. He’s well within his right to keep the domain. There’s no boogeyman coming to get him…or his domain.
Cheers,
Greg
Greg(Quote)