affta,    growing fly fishing,    orvis,    orvis fly fishing 101,    Underground Entertainment

Orvis Says Tired of Waiting for AFFTA to Grow Sport, Offers Free Fly Fishing Classes

By Tom Chandler 6/24/2010

That Orvis would offer free fly fishing classes isn't exactly a shocker; more anglers equals more gear flowing through the warehouse (which equals bigger bonuses).

It's a simple equation.

That said, what is interesting is an email comment offered by Orvis Grand Marketing Poobah Tom Rosenbauer:

"I've been worried about the lack of growth in the fly-fishing industry for a long time and have grown tired of waiting for our trade association to do something meaningful about it. We've decided to partner with TU to give free fly fishing lessons for novices every Saturday in July this summer."

Ouch.

The relationship between Orvis and AFFTA is largely open to interpretation; insiders have suggested the Orvis presence at prior AFFTA trade shows was more courtesy than necessity, and they barely made an appearance at last year's show.

Stay tuned for more exciting industry gossip.

For now, here's the Orvis Press Release:

SUNDERLAND, Vermont (June 9, 2010) "” Orvis and Trout Unlimited are partnering to offer a new industry event to introduce new fly fishers to the sport of fly fishing – Fly Fishing 101. Never before has there been such an organized effort across so many locations to give new fly fishers a chance to learn the great sport of fly fishing free of cost. "Newcomers to fly fishing are often intimidated with casting and other elements of getting started in the sport. The Fly Fishing 101 event will help participants learn fly fishing basics in an easy, non-threatening way," said Tory Myler, Orvis Retail and Wholesale Marketing Manager.

Every Saturday in July 2010 from 9AM-12PM, participating Orvis stores and dealers will offer free fly casting classes and free classes on rigging a fly rod and reel outfit. Upon completion of the courses, every participant will receive a $15 Orvis savings card and a certificate for a free membership to Trout Unlimited - a $35 value. Volunteers from Trout Unlimited will be on hand at select locations to aid with the instruction. "Fly fishers are a significant part of Trout Unlimited's membership because of our mission to protect, conserve and restore coldwater fisheries and their watersheds in North America. Our volunteers are excited to help newcomers learn and enjoy the sport of fly fishing," said Christopher Anderson, Trout Unlimited.

Growing the sport of fly fishing is a concept wholly embraced by the fly fishing industry, but anglers don't always evidence support for the idea.  I can see the utility of more humans lined up behind the concept of clean water, but I do find myself hoping any industry growth occurs on big waters and not small streams, where 'two' is definitely a crowd.

With AFFTA seemingly focused largely on its own survival as of late), the Underground has to ask:

What would the Undergrounders do to grow the sport (assuming you actually want the sport to grow)?
AuthorPicture

Tom Chandler

As the author of the decade leading fly fishing blog Trout Underground, Tom believes that fishing is not about measuring the experience but instead of about having fun. As a staunch environmentalist, he brings to the Yobi Community thought leadership on environmental and access issues facing us today.

38 comments
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I too am a "newbie". Let me explain my appreciation for Orvis. Last summer, after a long morning of trolling a lake with no results, I wondered if fly fishing would be a more active, engaging fishing experience than trolling or spin casting. I googled "fly fishing store", and up popped Orvis Pasadena. I went in there, and my first thoughts were "this clothing looks like Tommy Bahamas, are they actually ... more a serious fly shop?" - and "I'd have to spend a fortune on equipment, travel and guides before I even begin to find out if I might like this sport". I told the sales staff about my discouragement, and they did several helpful things: They showed me the low-end starter kits, and told me I didn't need all that other stuff yet. They told me where there were a lot of local small stream and urban lake opportunities that were just as rewarding, with no crowds, even if the trout were only 4-6". They offered the classes, but they also referred me to the local fly fishing club (which they sponsor, along with other retailers), and said the club would help me try out equipment for free on the local casting pond. The salesman pulled out a practice caster and gave me a 15 minute lesson on the spot. They pointed me to their website instructional videos, and to Tom Rosenbaur's podcast. I have since shopped at several fly shops. I did not purchase my rod and reel there, but I have purchased a lot of acessories. In comparison to the other independent shops, the Orvis staff seemed to be the biggest enthusiasts for fishing small local waters, and they were not condescending when I asked stupid questions. I caught and released my first trout on a dry fly last week, on a local stream that is considered too small/low by many other anglers. I packed out the litter I found nearby. The stream is better for it, I am better for it, Orvis is better for it, I became a member of the local fly fishing club, and some of my fly fishing dollars also went to other small retailers in the region who have been helpful. Newb, what's wrong with that?
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Newb: As a new fly fisher, I can tell you this. The single most frustrating thing about fly fishing? Orvis. I think the solution would be for orvis too stop selling rods reels and fly line in its stores. Think about it chief. Really? Orvis is your biggest fly fishing frustration? Honestly, I don't have a clue what you're saying here, and I doubt many of my readers do either. The attitude, however, ... more comes through loud and clear.
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As a new fly fisher, I can tell you this. The single most frustrating thing about fly fishing? Orvis. I think the solution would be for orvis too stop selling rods reels and fly line in its stores. Think about it chief.
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[...] is a step in the right direction. Given the economic maelstrom occurring outside the sport, and their stated desire to assist in bringing the halt, lame, and fishless into our beloved sport – you'd better have a comprehensive line of fair-priced tackle to back up that [...]
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Orvis has a big bullhorn so I expect that's why they get noticed for such work. And yes, the idea is neither new nor proprietary. Folks all over have been teaching people the sport for altruistic and commercial reasons since the beginning of time. Let's just take this for what it is - a particularly nice piece of marketing to further the business goals of a particular company.
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Steve - Actually, a significant portion of "the collective" checked out a while ago, then started doing this exact FF101 bit, for free, including shop discounts, only in perpetuity (versus a single month). I have no problem per se with what Orvis is doing, but at least give credit where credit is due here...with the independent retailer. Kicking the trade association when they're already down (quite ... more obviously to those who've had the opportunity to pay attention), and acting as though this is some brilliant, prescient, ala Poobah-esque course of action is disingenuous at best.
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So, to Tom's (C) original question, it has to about teaching children and their parents about the resource and the sport. TU in Connecticut has a very active Trout in the Classroom program. Last year the Candlewood Valley Chapter backed that up with a very successful one day Youth Education event which included Macroinvertebrate Sampling, Fly Casting and Fly Tying. We then also had a Youth Fly Fishing ... more School in the Fall which taught everything from stringing up a rod to picking the right fly. Both students and their parents attended and participated. Of the forty or so kids that attended I think we got one solid convert to the sport plus a few more dabblers. But I know that we also have eighty adults and children who now look at a small stream very differently than they did before the events. That's going to make a difference in the long run. We're not running the program this year due to very low interest. I think the economy finally made a $20 registration fee too much to swallow. So, next year we'll underwrite the whole thing because getting those eighty converts is critically important to both the resource and the sport. More of these type of events I think will be critical to getting more folks involved in the sport when they're young enough to make a strong impression.
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I think the marketing director of one of the two biggest fly fishing manufacturers/retailers is a wee bit late on the punch. Yeah, but that's par for the course when one is a member of such a collective. The bias is to let the collective perform it's role no matter how frustrating or ineffective it is. Eventually, however, one has to call it what it is and move on. I think Tom (R) has made that pretty ... more plain.
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This is a gadget sport! More is always the answer.
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I think that they are doing the right thing to do, for them, for the sport and for the customers, while we are at the comfort of a couch writing through this board and do nothing about the sportneither about the conservationist eforts. Im not from USA, I live in Chile.What I see is the selfish thinking about that a river belongs to me (the only fly fisher who deserve it) and thats not true. It belongs ... more to every man an women on planet earth, the sad thing is that few people preserve or care about them. Its true tha FFishermen take care of it (rivers, lakes, creecks, etc.) and do C&R more often than not, so yes I think that besides making money, which is the Orvis business, they are doing the right thing to do. Simon Zlachevsky
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If the sport doesn't grow, there is no future. New blood must come to the industry in order for it to be sustainable on many levels. Money drives awareness and conservation efforts. Other than the average angler, the industry evolves around making money from fly fishing, and Orvis and other manufacturers and retailers need to sell stuff for obvious reasons. Seems fitting for our capitalist society ... more if you ask me. But the ones who stand to profit from growing the sport are the fish, too. The sport needs new participants. Take a buddy fishing. Share the passion with people you know. Get kids hooked early, grow them into responsible stewards. Part of educating newbies is teaching the ways of conservation.
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On behalf of newbies, I thank Orvis and people like Rosenbauer, whose podcasts have been more helpful to me in learning a sport than any number of harumphing snoots with Sage rods. I live in the Midwest, hours from the driftless region, and was fly fishing for bass, crappie and bluegill a long, long time before I landed a brown. Perhaps the debate should not come down to growing or shrinking fly fishing. ... more Rather, it should concern inculcating the right values in those who stick with a difficult sport to learn.
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Yeah, sorry I was not referring to the Orvis program. Poor choice of words. The above post was my personal rant against the exclusionary and arrogant view that "now I've arrived as a fly fisherman, let's keep all those newbies out of it" I wrote it too late at night and didn't read it over before posting. Orvis' program to introduce new people to the sport is obviously good for business. But believe ... more it or not, people at Orvis, from the owners down to the product developers, feel just as strongly about the resource as they do about profits, and new people are good for the resource. A trout stream without many strong advocates will be bulldozed without a whisper of protest. I've seen it happen. Of course along with new people in the sport we have to assure we keep the vast public access we have. Montana has set a great example. Colorado and Utah and Wyoming are going in the wrong direction. I own five acres on a wild trout river and the first thing I did when I bought my house was to tear down all the posted signs.
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Mr. Rosenbauer (I'm assuming you're really *the* Tom Rosenbauer of Orvis?), Why does Orvis believe the sport should grow? You said, "It's the American way so get with the program." Is this the official Orvis position? Would you please qualify "it's" and "the program"?
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It seems funny to me that people in the country with the most vast public fishing resource in the world complain about overcrowded conditions. Show a European what we have and see what they say--and how amazed they are we can drive to a trout stream and just park and go fishing. Granted if you want to put a notch in your belt and say you fished the PMDs on the Horn or Tricos on the Missouri you would ... more run into crowds. Doesn't anyone fish for bass or bluegills or shad or fish small streams any more? There are thousands and thousands of small wild trout streams in this country that never see a fly angler for the entire season because the fish aren't big enough to post on your facebook page or you might have to walk out of sight of your car. There are thousands of miles of beach where you can have redfish or stripers in shallow water all day long and seldom see another angler--again if you do your homework the hard way and are willing to hoof it. This exclusionary mindset some of us have is so idiotic. No one is born a trout bum. We were all stupid bumblers and worm dunkers and clueless yuppies at some point. And you were infringing on some old-timer's pool who was probably cursing you under his breath. It's the American way so get with the program. Our founding fathers were adamant that fish and game belong to all the people to avoid the mistakes they made in Europe. This exclusionary mindset is the same kind of thinking that leads to posting and private clubs.
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I think the marketing director of one of the two biggest fly fishing manufacturers/retailers is a wee bit late on the punch.
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This is non-news. When the marketing director of one of the two biggest fly fishing manufacturers/retailers says the trade group isn't doing it's job very well, then it's news. At least here.
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I say Orvis and TU should be commended. I suppose one can argue that if they offer free fly casting lessons to someone new to the sport and that person needs to be outfitted they would naturally tend to buy Orvis equiptment. So what? As been mentioned many fly shops do the same thing. This is after all a business and business' need to grow and show a profit. And don't forget that Orvis donates 5% ... more of their pre-tax dollars to conservation. And no I am not affilitated with Orvis.
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"What would the Undergrounders do to grow the sport (assuming you actually want the sport to grow)?" Last week I was speaking with a retired friend of mine from Norwich, Vermont. That afternoon he was planning to head down to the local elementary school to conduct a class on fly fishing. It's interesting and maybe appropriate to this discussion that teaching skills was only a part of the class, my ... more friend said he was hoping that via this class, the children would become more aware of the river, environment and the need to protect it. Fly fishing has always been a part of our family's life and I believe my children and grandchildren have a deeper and more sensitive understanding and appreciation of rivers, fish, bugs, wildlife and wild places, simply the environment in general because of it. I also know that the future of fly fishing and the appreciation and protection of the rivers and fish will be in the hands of our children someday and I believe we need more programs directed exclusively to them, so that they might do a better job than we have. Fly fishing can be a wonderful way to raise a general environmental awareness among our young people.
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I think what makes this news is the explicit dissatisfaction with AFFTAWTF, and the organized effort to partner with TU on a national Fly Fishing 101 program. Because of the partnership and large scale nature of the effort it has higher impact potential than the individual efforts of independent fly shops, not that I am advocating one method/venue over the other. Major brands have large communications ... more bandwidth, a wider audience, more touchpoints and generally a higher profile than the smaller independent shops, for better or worse. You are right. FF 101 is not news by itself, but a concerted national effort and partnership with TU is.
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Every shop I know of (or at least that I visit with any frequency) in this town already offers free beginner fly fishing classes. Some also offer free beginner fly TYING classes, as well as free seminars on how to improve your intermediate to advanced game. Is Orvis providing free beer? Some of the above mentioned shops do that too. This is non-news.
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Yeah, I agree here. It doesn't seem that Orvis is giving off any pretense that this is for anything other than growing their own business. Introduce new people to the sport that gives them a better-than-average chance of sticking with it: Great. Using that training time to extol the values and superiority of your own product lines: Great Business. Its fairly obvious that if a caster gets taught on, ... more and used to, a certain rod/reel/line from an Orvis demo, when it comes time to buy the first outfit, there is one setup that everything is going to be compared to. Likely they go with the Orvis because its a heck of a lot less confusing to them at that point than the others. My salesman side tells me that if I teach a customer valuable information, AND make them feel like an expert on my products, its pretty hard for the Average Joe fly shop owner to sway them to what he has in stock.
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Some great points. It's hard not to be a little cynical about the "more fishermen = more voices for conservation" truism. Sure, it stands to reason that simply sending a check to an organization offers some help, but anybody who has tried to rouse fly fishermen in a cause has experienced more than a few bouts of frustration.And don't get me started on the guides, the vast majority of which seem (up ... more here at least) ill-informed and uninterested in preserving the waters they guide. A small handful seem to pull the wagon for all the others. (See, I told you not to get me started.)As for Orvis, I've been pretty vocally supportive of the conservation efforts of both Orvis and Patagonia, who - on the conservation front - pretty much leave the industry's other big companies in the dust.Good on 'em.
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On the subject of Orvis, however, their sudden rise to the “conscience of the sport” is news to me Why use quotes around the words "conscience of the sport" when those are your words and not anyone else's? I don't think Orvis is playing any games. I don't see any claim of altruism; they're trying to grow the sport (in their best interest) and I'm simply curious about how those already in the sport ... more feel about it.
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Bottom line, according to the article, was that flyfishing is “hard,” and that people drop out soon after watching “The Movie” and giving it a fruitless try or two. The proposed solution, which is what Orvis seems to be doing, was to help make beginners more proficient so that they would enjoy it more and keep buying all that essential stuff Fly fishing isn't all that hard, but fly fishing ... more with any real competence actually is pretty difficult (I'm not talking about heaving a bobber over the side of the boat and letting the guide row you over likely slots). I'd suggest that little reality is a poor fit for most folks "searching" for a new way to experience the outdoors.
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Tom, As to your question, I'm not interested in "growing the sport." Like many other people, I'm pretty selfish when it comes to *my* fishing experiences (which are typically void of other humans). Although, also like many others, I am interested in environmental/clean water/etc. initiatives/conservation/etc. I know the idea mentioned by 3than, Bubba, etc. that the-more-fly-fishers-there-are-the-more-environmental-good-can-come-of-it ... more concept is enticing in theory, but I don't know how accurate it is in reality. Sure, there are *some* who get involved in conservation, but conservation of what? The natural riparian habitat and water? Lots of anglers aren't conserving/protecting (whatever you want to call it) the environment, riparian areas, watershed or fish in general, they're protecting their fishing. (Just look at the razorback sucker - how many fly fishers are clamoring to protect them?) I think the more anglers there are the more/bigger fish they want to catch. It results in more stocking programs and tailwater fisheries management than anything else. Take a look at Anders' Entirely Synthetic Fish book to get an idea of what happens with an increase in anglers and their demand for fish. If the conservation angle is accurate, how many fly fishers are actually members of "Western Native Trout Initiative" or "Western Watersheds Project" (or whatever other initiatives and projects are available in one's locale)? Sure,some are TU (Trout Unlimited, *not* Trout Underground) members and think that's it, they're doing their part. But just being a member isn't enough, whether TU, WNTI, WWP, etc., those who are really concerned are actively involved besides sending in their check once a year. As far as Orvis is concerned, is it "bad" that Orvis is involved in fanning the fishing flame? Certainly their motives are not 100% altruistic, but they actually do have a pretty strong conservation ethos. From Orvis: "Orvis donates 5% of pre-tax profits annually to protect nature." They've even been involved in Tom's beloved McCloud River redband trout rehabilitation project. They want your money because it helps keep them afloat, but they also contribute a large chunk toward the environment ($10 million in the past ten years - not bad!). http://www.orvis.com/conservation
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Spoken like a true equipment predator. But really, how much more gear do any of us need?
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That newbies might not fish all that often is a good point.
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There are definitely fewer on the Upper Sac during most of the year, though the McCloud and Pit may actually be more crowded than a decade ago. I can't really speak to the backcountry thing as I've killed and buried every angler who had the nerve to fish "my" lakes and streams.
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As regards the growth of the sport, I'm not sure we can promise future generations of anglers the same birthright we've enjoyed. Fish at every level of the salt and fresh foodchains are in the same leisurely decline as us anglers - and while we can resonably say "we don't harm them much" - I'm not sure how long that'll hold - especially in light of invasives, etc. On the subject of Orvis, however, ... more their sudden rise to the "conscience of the sport" is news to me ... I never voted for them, and the AFFTA is a trade organization, and certainly owns no responsibility to raise the national awareness any. If Orvis was so distraught, I'd suggest they offer all the fly fishing clubs all those "seconds" they're blowing out in their factory outlet stores - at cost. It's those small clubs that provide support and encouragement to the beginning angler - irrespective of label and commercial enterprise. If a newbie likes the feel of his casting club labelled Orvis rod, he can look them up at his local vendor and endure the commercial experience - perhaps with a new fishing buddy to offer a bit of guidance in the purchase - as many club members are happy to help, provide introduction, etc. Insisting the classes are on Orvis premise just betrays their avaricious intent.
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It is true that the sales of fly fishing gear and travel are on the decline, but does that really translate into the idea that the sport of fly fishing is in decline? At least in the roadside waters I try to avoid, it appears the crowds are just as thick as they have ever been over the past decade. Lots of young anglers too, which doesn't make me think the sport is going to go belly up any time soon. ... more The one area I have seen a dramatic decline in pressure is in the backcountry - but I think that reflects on the population at large less willing to hoist a backpack than lack of fishing motivation.
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As a relatively new fly fisherman I would actually like to see some growth in the sport, for many of the reasons that Craig articulates. Additionally, fly fishing has gotten me more involved in conservation, this is a good thing. Most of the new people I run into are pretty serious about conservation and C & R. Lets be honest for a moment, most people who fish only get a little fishing in every ... more year. They maybe take a trip or two to some isolated place, but they are not going out every day or even every weekend.
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It's a dilemma. If you and I were the only flyfisher's on earth, what voice would there be for wild trout, conservation, and so on (and why are so few spincasters ardent wild-trout spokespeople anyway?). And what would motivate tackle companies to develop essential flyfishing innovations such as $800 fly rods and that gizmo you can use to get your fly out of trees? But, deep down in the darkest recesses ... more of my heart, I do wish there were only two of us to share the rivers. A couple of years ago, I found a fishing tackle trade magazine in the POS cabin I rent up on River X. Makes me wonder who rented the cabin before I did, but nevertheless, there was an interesting article in the magazine about the decline in numbers of new flyfishermen (a phenomenon that seemed counter to my experience). Bottom line, according to the article, was that flyfishing is "hard," and that people drop out soon after watching "The Movie" and giving it a fruitless try or two. The proposed solution, which is what Orvis seems to be doing, was to help make beginners more proficient so that they would enjoy it more and keep buying all that essential stuff.
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What we need is explosive, short term, short lived growth. The kind of growth that is followed by a flood of mid-range gear on eBay. Only the new guys can be convinced that they need a $540 rod, $200 reel, and $69 line to go try fly fishing at the local creek.
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Being that my interests reach into other time and money consuming hobbies the primary one being bluegrass, this post immediately reminded me of Orville Gibson's Mandolin Orchestra fad in the 1920s. He drove sales and popularity of his mandolins by starting orchestras filled with mandolin family instruments in towns all across the country, where the didn't otherwise exist. At first, I thought the idea ... more was evil and insidious but I've come to terms with it as legitimate strategy for growth. I generally subscribe to the theory that the more people who are interested in fly fishing, then the more people will want to conserve and properly manage the resources and habitat, which, in theory, leads to better fishing for all. So I say whats good for Orvis is probably good for fly fishing, although I still think some of they's britches is overpriced.
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Tom, Do you want the sport to grow? I don't. There's enough crowding now. I'd be happy to hear that half of the people fishing right now suddenly lost interest (or that nobody new wanted to learn). Just the macro perspective above, as I'm always happy to help someone learn to cast. Obviously anybody in the business wants growth, but I don't see a net gain in growth for those of us that just want to ... more fish.
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No doubt its for business reasons. With the slide the quality of their stuff has taken again in the last 10years and the downturn in the economy they need newbies to sell. Of course from a company that thinks its a good idea to put a disc drag in the CFO you'd kind of expect the junk they currently make. Not sure how much of their total business is fly fishing vs clothing and misc but they've really ... more been more of a clothing than serious fly fishing place for most of the last 20 years....on the plus side they do seem to be fairly supportive of TU etc.... Once upon a time LLBean had great fly fishing stuff too.
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They aren't trying to grow the sport so much as grow their baseline income. The "Beginner Class" is the single largest source of full outfit sales a shop gets - and why so many classes are offered in both fly tying and casting. It's no different than Apple generously subsidising the schools with free Mac's back in the 80's - the assumption is brand loyalty sticks through the maturation process. Good ... more on them for offering classes, but benevolence is not part of this equation - lagging sales is the motivator.
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