Every day I receive an email from a reader suggesting the Trout Underground is the Bestest Fly Fishing Blog Ever.
(Thanks mom.)
Still, it’s gratifying when an independent rating service not related to me in any way says, in essence:
The Trout Underground is the Bestest Fishing Blog Ever
.
Sure, the ranking’s based on what we’ll euphemistically label incomplete data, but I’m willing to overlook that – even as I zoom in on the tasty fact the Underground’s not simply the Bestest Fly Fishing Blog, but in fact tops the list of the 50 Best Fishing Blogs.
In fact, I’m so overcome with joy and validation and happiness and a warm tingly feeling that I’m experiencing the urge to speak Latin.
Quod erat demonstrandum.
(I gloat. I preen. I strut about obnoxiously.)
Smile - We're #1
I’d like to thank my agent, my publicist, my people, Wally the Wonderdog, my answering machine and my family for standing by me while I blogged for free instead of investing the Underground’s tens of thousands of hours in my business, thereby condemning my family to a life of abject poverty followed by a lingering death in an unheated home.
Yes. It’s a day to be proud.
Of course, I can’t forget my readers, who helped make the Underground #1 (not #1 in the sense that we’re human waste, but that we’re at the pinnacle of the food chain).
As megalomania sets in, it’s clear that the Undergrounders, simply put, are as much to blame as anyone.
See you staring lovingly the mirror, Tom Chandler.
Incomplete? How about so woefully incomplete it’s a joke? For example, Moldy Chum has a higher Alexa ranking than Trout Underground, but they don’t have RSS feeds or their RSS feed data were not included, so they were dinged in “site score”, whatever that is. Not to mention there are probably 50 fly fishing blogs that would crack the top ten based on their Alexa ranking alone. The number 7 blog here is 3.2 MILLION on Alexa? Number 7? Weird, arbitrary study.
Matt Dunn(Quote)
You’ll be hearing from my mother.
I mentioned the incomplete data in the post, but simply relying on Alexa is the other side of the same coin. For example, the Underground has more incoming links than the others – a key indicator of “quality” – and invesp’s methodology is pretty clearly spelled out in the FAQ.
For that matter, their estimate of my monthly visitors is under by almost a factor of three.
But I’m not really interested in defending their methodology, and judging by the post, the world should probably realize don’t take this stuff very seriously.
In the end, I’d have to believe that a general fishing blog – given the much larger size of the audience – would reign supreme.
On the other hand, I put a lot of effort into the Underground, and it certainly remains the largest original-content fly fishing blog on the planet, which is – unlike a largely illusory ranking – something to be proud of.
Tom Chandler(Quote)
Not your mother! Seriously, I know you mentioned that it was incomplete, but incomplete is an understatement. They simply didn’t include the vast majority of fly fishing blogs, let alone fishing blogs. I realize that Alexa rankings aren’t the be all end all, and neither are links in, but taken together (and I think Alexa uses links in?) they are a very good indicator for how “influential” a website is. This is another problem though, what exactly are we quantifying? Influence? Also, from everything I’ve seen and heard and read, it is virtually impossible to get an accurate traffic measure from “outside” a website.
As for Invesp’s methodology, yes it is clear, but they rely on people to submit websites. They apparently don’t have many people doing that, because as I noted in my original comment, the 7th ranked fishing blog has an Alexa ranking of 3.2 million. I know Alexa rankings should be taken with a grain of salt, but 3.2 million is very high. There are many, many, many other fly fishing blogs (not to mention fishing blogs) that are much lower than 3.2 million and would, using invesp’s own methodology, score very highly in the ranking. They simply have not been submitted to this particular ranking scheme.
Now I’m not saying The Trout Underground is not one of the most influential fly fishing blogs on the internet. I’ve seen the power of your google juice first hand. And I agree that your website, the amount of original content (most impressive I would say), the gobs of traffic it generates and the google stick it waves are all things to be proud of.
But my point is that there are a lot of other websites that should be in the top ten or twenty that are not. And because your google stick is so big, people tend to trust the things you say here, even when you have a jokey style and a comment about the “euphemistically incomplete data.”
Matt Dunn(Quote)
Matt;
If you don’t believe the Underground should rank #1, then just say it.
Invesp’s methodology is pretty sound, and frankly, any issues revolve around the availability of data. And while data isn’t available for other sites (by design or accident), TU should be penalized because of the transparency of my site?
Also, you’re wrong about the need for submittal; I never submitted the Underground, and I’ll bet none of the others submitted either.
I don’t know Invesp’s methods for picking their “starting” sites, but it’s important to note they got big parts of right.
The three biggest/most visited/highest ranking/most engaged blogs in fly fishing are in fact MidCurrent’s news feed, Moldy Chum, and the Trout Underground.
All three sit atop the Invesp rankings.
Outside of the Fly Talk wildcard, there’s precious little room to argue about this, especially once you take a good look at the relevant data.
Depending on how you weight the results, any of the three could win, and rightfully so.
You mentioned Fly Talk – which is interesting, but has undergone a name change, at least one change in address, has mucked up its RSS feed twice, runs a pretty closed shop in terms of data, and is making pretty poor use of social media.
And as relative latecomers, they also don’t have the kind of indexed pages or incoming links it takes to play at the highest levels… yet.
Despite the fact they’re an excellent example of what print magazines should be doing online, there’s no way to know what they’re doing.
So how are they supposed to be ranked?
Simple. They aren’t. And I really don’t believe they’re one of the Top three yet.
However, mentioning the Tailgate and This is Fly’s blog as being relevant to this conversation is wide of the mark. The Tailgate is brand new (look at their comment count), and This is Fly simply isn’t an engagement blog.
Overreliance on Alexa’s numbers – which are primarily traffic-based, and notoriously inaccurate for smaller market sites – is a mistake. For example, Midcurrent’s site traffic was hugely underreported by Alexa for a long stretch of time.
And yes, Google has a lot to say in this matter.
There are plenty of other measures that indicate reader engagement, authority and other measures – metrics that Invesp is looking at, but you’re not.
To say that other fly fishing blogs should have cracked this list is probably true.
On the other hand, it’s not a fly fishing only list, and frankly, I expected fishing blogs – which are playing to a much, much larger audience – to reign supreme. That they crowd out other fly fishing blogs is at least somewhat believable.
I’ve spent years looking at this stuff for myself and clients, and I know there are no black & white metrics.
Still, based on Invesp’s criteria, TU, Moldy and Midcurrent’s news feed seem to have come out on top, and if you disagree with those choices, fine. I’d say the numbers available largely support those choices.
Finally, I’m trying to have a little fun with this and it seems you’re not, and I really don’t know what you expect from me outside of denouncing the list, which seems unlikely given I think the upper tier stuff is in the ballpark.
Everybody else is giving this the weight it deserves (which is to say not all that much), and I’m at a loss to understand why it matters much to anyone. There are no cash prizes at stake, and by the beginning of next week, this post will have scrolled off the bottom and into the archives, and nothing – absolutely nothing – will have changed in fly fishing’s blogosphere.
Tom Chandler(Quote)
This is Fly Daily just got going recently… still, they wouldn’t register since they’ve only been up for a couple/few months.
Bjorn(Quote)
Dude- I’m just trying to have a conversation about this kind of thing here because I think it’s interesting and there is a lot of confusion about it, including on my part. I think Alexa’s value is not settled. As for invesp, I think it’s great, but it needs a bigger data set to reliably rank order URLs.
As far as someone saying that I’m jealous, I think that’s absurd. I realize that my website is very middle of the fly fishing blog pack in terms of traffic, links in, whatever other metric you want to use, and is orders of magnitude below you, Moldy, and Midcurrent.
And I certainly don’t want to claim that Trout Underground isn’t the number 1 fly fishing blog. I agree that it is Midcurrent. Moldy Chum, and TU. No doubt. For the most part I really like your website. My problem was with the other blogs listed there.
The fact remains that blogs do have to be submitted, as somebody apparently affiliated with the ranking confirmed below. And while you didn’t submit TU to the ranking and nobody you know did, someone had to put the fucking thing in there. It didn’t just materialize.
And note Singlebarbed’s fourth place position today. That makes sense to me. Where was Singlebarbed on the list yesterday? It’s not like overnight he got 300 more links in, 1000 more indexed pages, and 500 RSS subscriptions. Seems to me like the blog just got ranked. And moved quickly up in the rankings much as I expected it and several other fly fishing blogs to do.
And I think if you can’t take criticism and a sincere discussion of what you do in a public forum with open comments, maybe you should get rid of the comments or just delete the ones you don’t like.
And if you really believe this:
“There are no cash prizes at stake, and by the beginning of next week, this post will have scrolled off the bottom and into the archives, and nothing – absolutely nothing – will have changed in fly fishing’s blogosphere.”
Then why the hell did you post it in the first place?
But in the end, you’re right. I continually attempt to engage people in serious discussions on the internet and it always ends up a big clusterfuck. I think that’s a shame because I think the internet and blogs are very well suited to have these kinds of dicussions, but it never really works out because it’s so hard to read emotion and intent in a blog comment.
So in the future, look only for “good job!” “nice!” and “Slaw dogs rule” in your comments.
Matt Dunn(Quote)
Damn. I thought I was the only one wasting my time here.
Jdevo(Quote)
There are many, many
slackersdedicated readers like yourself.Tom Chandler(Quote)
It’s West Coastian. It’ #1.
Flykuni(Quote)
Dude, word.
Tom Chandler(Quote)
Kind of to your post about print not getting the web… not a single magazine blog there, not a single gear maker there… a few charter captains and a couple lodges in there, but overall, individuals.
Clearly, my bonefish blog isn’t there… the dozens of visitors I get in a week would really shake things up.
Bjorn(Quote)
There were probably no manufacturer or magazine blogs included in this “study.” I’m sure Fly Talk, from Field and Stream, is one of the most visited/influential/whatever fishing websites out there, probably second tier below TC if not competing with him. Similarly, The Fly Fish Journal’s Tailgate is up and coming, and This is Fly’s blog is certainly middle of the pack if not better.
Matt Dunn(Quote)
More love from Matt.
Fly Talk probably didn’t make it because it doesn’t have a standalone domain. I’m sure traffic is significant, but in overall terms (links, PR, etc) it’s second tier compared to TU, Moldy & the MidCurrent News feed.
The mag blogs are a long ways from here. It takes time to build up juice, so the early adopters have an advantage.
Tom Chandler(Quote)
Congratulations, Tom!
It’s the quality of TU that keeps me coming back.
Well, that and the fact I don’t know how to delete the TU bookmark.
Steve(Quote)
Wait until the Trout Underground TV show hits the airwaves; once you tune in, the TV won’t let you change the channel… ever.
Tom Chandler(Quote)
Cool, I’ll be able to cancel cable and spend the money on Wayne Eng. Bonus!
Steve(Quote)
I love you man. If it weren’t for you I wouldn’t have a Stephens net or get to enjoy Phillips 66 slaw dogs when we’re in Townsend.
Mike Wilson(Quote)
You’ve got a Stephens landing net? They’re pretty stuff. Do you know if they’re making them again, or are they finished for good?
Tom Chandler(Quote)
congradulations! As a humbled slabmaster (damn that Wayne Eng) this is just one
more comforting thought I can safely tuck away, whilst surrounded in traffic by a
pack of imminently accelerant Toyotas.
my wife’s cook(Quote)
So your gonna pass on talk radio altogether and go straight to cable? I could use four hours a day of fishin’ talk (as opposed to the political blabber).
Congrats!!!!
jack dimling(Quote)
Yeah, but a political radio show is so much easier than a fly fishing radio show. In one instance, you can tell monstrous lies that bear no resemblance to reality, and in the other, you have to talk about fly fishing.
Tom Chandler(Quote)
TU!! TU!!! TU!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How do we keep the numbers up TC?
Taku(Quote)
I dunno. If you have any suggestions, don’t hesitate to write them on a $10 bill and send it to me…
Tom Chandler(Quote)
Oh SNAP!
Oh snap! The agregators, the scrapers, the rest of the bums who have no thoughts but others take a second place to YOU?
Time to find that phone number of the Varsity Cheerleader that you coveted all those lonely years in Thousand Oaks. And let her know.
I’m so proud of you!
Chris
Chris Raine(Quote)
You really think I’d have a chance with the cheerleader?
Tom Chandler(Quote)
Have you seen her lately?
Mark Coleman(Quote)
Not in 30+ years. It’s likely she’s never seen me.
Tom Chandler(Quote)
Went to my 20th in the fall and exactly zero of the cheerleaders looked better than they did in high school. In fact, only one girl in the whole class looked better and she started out pretty big. I can’t believe I lusted such mere mortals.
Mark Coleman(Quote)
Is there a Best Wonderdog in a Fly Fishing Blog category?
Smarter and Better Looking Brother(Quote)
We’re # 1, we’re #1…
I see the Singlebarded is rocketing up the list.
It’s all good, congratulations Tom.
Don(Quote)
There is no “I” in Trout Underground … Congratulations! TV? Suggested title: “Wally, I’m Home”
Turnip Truck Driver(Quote)
Is it just me or does Matt sound a wee bit jealous?
Who cares how you interpret the data? Congrats to TU!!
Harry(Quote)
WOW! I just wasted way too much time reading, muddling through the debate and discussion. Could you please translate Matt’s point into Greek?
Nevermind:Wow κεÏδίσατε κάτι! Συγγνώμη, αλλά μου αÏÎσει μια άλλη τοποθεσία καλÏτεÏα γι ‘αυτό θα την φλυαÏία για το πώς μποÏείτε να πιπιλίζουν γιατί μου αÏÎσει κάτι καλÏτεÏο.
There I did it for you!!
There now someone else can read that and try and translate….don’t worry Tom I sent it to you via e-mail!!!
Dave(Quote)
Babel fish translation:
Wow you gained something! Apology, but I like a other locality better for `this the babble for how you can [pipilizoyn] because I like something better.
Babylon translation:
You have won wow! I am sorry, but I like another location better for ‘that would more about how you to suck because I like something better.
Being number #1 means somebody is always trying to shoot you down. I personally just read for the continuing adventures of Wally the Wonderdog and his loyal servant. And the health food recipes.
Gerry C(Quote)
Congrats Tom! Like Ricky Bobby says in the movie Talladega Nights, if you’re not first, your last! My blog is bound to succeed only because I’ve aimed so low ;>)
We do enjoy it so keep it comin!
Craig Nielsen(Quote)
Congratulations, Tom!
I already knew you were the tops in the blogging world.
Roger W(Quote)
Congratulations, Tom! Well deserved!
couple of points to answer Matt:
Matt, it seems you are really stuck on Alexa :) It might have been a good indicator of the quality of the blog 4 years ago, but really it is not considered as reliable or useful service all together. As a matter of fact, many top bloggers wondered we even include Alexa in the first place. Also, Alexa does not use links. They rely on people downloading the alexa toolbar and measure site visits using.
We rely on the community to add blogs and for the list to grow organically. There are categories where we started with 30 blogs and grow to over 500. Adding a blog is free so go ahead and try it ;)
Khalid(Quote)
Sorry Tom, But just logged on Moldychum and the Friday Pinup has to increase their traffic, I just drooled all over the keyboard!!!! Maybe that is Alexa? I could see why Matt would be hung up on her!!!!
Gerry C-Nice translation!!!!
Dave(Quote)
Moldy and his damn pinups.
Tom Chandler(Quote)
Tom, I’ve been following your blog for about a year. I usually waste an hour a day reading various fly fishing blogs/websites while working my 9 to 5. Your blog is at the top of my ‘Favorites’ list and is, easily, the most enjoyable to read. Your page is especially helpful during these long winter months in the midwest. Anyway, tops in my book. Keep it up. Congratulations.
Matt in St. Louis
Matt(Quote)
Thanks! But hey, get an RSS reader, and you can cut that time in half. More time to surf porn that way.
Tom Chandler(Quote)
Geez Tom, You think Matt Dunn has heard of Haiti, the national debt or global warming…
Oh sh.t! I shouldn’t have mentioned global warming, God help us all.
Get a life Matt, it’s blogging about fishing, dude.
Craig Blount(Quote)
Whenever an internet “fight” breaks out some douchebag has to step up and say something like “get a life, there’s serious sh.t [sic] going on in the world.” The ironic thing is… that guy is just as involved. So hey Craig, how about you get a life? Fix global warming. Save Haiti. Get rid of the debt. Then you can come back here and comment on my comments.
Sorry Dr. Chandler. Slaw dogs rule.
Matt Dunn(Quote)
Get a life? You rambled on about some obscure crap only a computer hacker living in mom’s basement would even have an inkling of understanding about. Then you continue blathering endlessly about some process to guage the actual worth of a finding? Do us a favor say “congrats Tom” and then follow that with “Mom I’m going out tonight and have no idea when I’ll be back. Heck I might even get laid!”
Dave(Quote)