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Podcast Discusses Casting in the Wind; Underground Says It's Time To Talk

By Tom Chandler 2/5/2010

Get past the horseplay right at the start of the most recent Orvis podcast (the player should appear below), and it's a pretty good listen. Fly fishing in the wind is one of my least favorite activities, and I've heard literally  mounds of advice over the years. Some of it, frankly, seemed pretty bad.

Orvis has avoided all that in this podcast, but I'm looking for the Undergrounders to throw down their ideas.



Here, Tom Rosenbaeur and Perk Perkins advise anglers to not push the rod harder and don't fight the wind, all of which is transparently good advice.

He and Rosenbauer also offer up a few non-controversial ideas, including:

  • Keep casts low to the water (less windy there)

  • Use a Belgian cast (a constantly loaded elliptical cast) to keep the line moving (haven't tried it for wind, but it's handy when you're casting heavy flies like streamers)

  • Use shorter leaders and smaller flies

  • Cast a shorter rod


Interestingly, Perkins suggests he does just as well with a mid-flex rod in the wind as he does with a tip flex - something I did once experience fishing 6wts on a lake. I don't get it, but it was true for me.

Is that simply because moderate tapers suit my casting style, or is there something else? (Discuss)

The Chainsaw Death Match Part
Finally, we get to the good stuff; Lefty Kreh has famously suggested underlining a fly rod by one line weight on windy days, apparently so you can throw tighter loops and generate faster line speeds.

And yes, I tried that once. The results weren't pretty.

Apparently, Perkins and Rosenbauer don't think much of the idea either, and in the interest of fomenting an Industry-Wide Death Match between Big-Name Heavy-Hitters, I've gotta ask the Undergrounders: has anyone else actually tried this, and had it work (or not)?

In my case, I'd suggest the lighter line loaded the rod less and offered less mass to "boss" the fly.

Perhaps If I'd been throwing a midge, it wouldn't have mattered, but I was throwing a #14 parachute during a Callaebatis hatch, and eventually switched back to my original 6wt line (the rated line).

I've heard of anglers opting to overline a rod by one line weight on a windy day, so clearly, there's ample room here for violent disagreement discussion.

Obviously, there's plenty of room to screw around with all this stuff, but after years of mucking about, I simply fish a 6wt when it's windy. Sometimes the simple solution is the best.

Where do the Undergrounders land on the subject of wind, fly rods, fly lines, and the prospect of an industry blood bath stuff?
AuthorPicture

Tom Chandler

As the author of the decade leading fly fishing blog Trout Underground, Tom believes that fishing is not about measuring the experience but instead of about having fun. As a staunch environmentalist, he brings to the Yobi Community thought leadership on environmental and access issues facing us today.

10 comments
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I was taught the Belgian cast as a way of dealing with the wind. I fish Hot Creek in the summer, and between about 10:00 a.m. and 5:00 p.m. the wind is pretty constant. Leader shy fish require leader lengths of at least 12', not larger than 6X tippet. So, that presents a set of problems that I don't think an underlined rod would adequately address. I like KBarton10's suggestion that where you stand ... more can help you deal with the wind. Also, I've learned that the way to catch fish on that stream is to keep you fly on the water, which is hard to do when you are changing flies, changing leaders, and then changing lines on top of all that.
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I think that "don't fight it" is something that may sound great on a pod cast but falls short (pun intended) in real life. Trying to get a fly 60 feet out in a 30 knot head wind is a struggle. When there is no other choice, and you can't tell your guide to go somewhere where it's easier to cast (they probably won't like that so much), "don't fight it" isn't going to help you much. As long as you're ... more not collapsing the rod, a slightly faster stick and a more powerful, crisp stroke is going to help. The biggest help for me, was learning to be accurate dropping your back cast to the water. If you're right handed and the wind is coming from your right side, turn 180 degrees and launch your back cast where you need it.
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The Belgian cast in question is somethng I learned attempted try to do whenever I'm fishing a heavy streamer - it largely eliminates the jerky crap. I'd never considered it for casting in the wind. Have to give it a try, though I don't think Orvis has a podcast for fly fishing when there's four feet of snow on the ground, the river's completely blown, and the lakes are months from ice out...
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Thats the very one, thanks. I guess I should listen to the podcast.
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I liked what the guide in Taming the Wind was doing. Basically keeping the line moving at all times, buy moving it in an elliptical motion, the rod never traveled in the same path. If you cast in the standard back and fourth, you have to stop the rod tip, hence the line actually stops going backward in order to then move forward. You lose line speed during this change in direction and the slower line ... more speed is affected more by the wind than a higher line speed. By moving the rod in a oval motion it is easier to keep line speed, tension as he said on the line. The only time I have ever over lined a rod was when some friends and I were doing some distance casting. I don't know if it helped with distance, but I was able to carry more line in the air with out overloading the rod. To me all rods seem to have a sweet spot based on the weight line that is on them. Sometimes it is, say at 60 feet, then you put a lighter line on it and that sweet spot moves out to 75 or 80 feet. -smaller diameter line, less wind resistance does make sense -a caster trying to over power the rod in order to punch through the wind, may have an easier time, when underlining the rod, because then he is not over loading the rod Tipflex versus Midflex, It depends what you cast better. I personally can pretty much cast a midflex just as far as I can cast a tipflex. I believe this is because I have better loop control with the midflex rod which makes for a more efficient cast. I really enjoyed the podcast and video clip, makes me want to fish. No if we can just get the weather to cooperate and for TVA to turn the water off just a bit I can get on the water.
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Have been suffering some 'orrible winds on my local lakes the past few months, and I have to say it's improved my casting. Against the wind, everything has to be right. It's also surprising how often I do a great (long) cast, even front-on into the wind. The down side; I still don't know why it happens. Low to the wind is an obvious one...now that I've been told. Another one I was told years ago - ... more keep your game short. Haven't listened to the podcast yet, but will do so tonight.
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Hey Eben... the name of the DVD is Taming the Wind . Tom and Perk reference it in the podcast. You can see a clip of the movie at www.orvis.com/wind
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I am all for short casts and stealth (as Ray suggests) on windy days, it works in 90% percent of the situations I might encounter on a windy day. That said, for the other 10% the elliptical "Belgian" cast is pretty effective. I once saw a DVD (sorry I have forgotten the name) where a gentleman from the Bahamas demonstrated the effectiveness of the elliptical cast by standing on the bow of a power ... more boat going 35mph and repeatedly false casting tight loops. I don't think I could do it, but it demonstrates that it can be done.
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My vote, in the wind is to use it to your advantage and avoid lengthy casts. The wind generally add chop, debris in the water, movement in the streamside brush. All the better for sneaking up on fish and dropping in a 15 foot cast - which is performed easily in damn near any wind - instead of the 35 or 45 footer you might normally use. Work the sneak on them. Overlining/underlining has always been ... more a dubious game IMO. That's not to say that every rod comes from the factory labeled for the perfect line... but once you've established the line you fish on that rod, I wouldn't mess with it.
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Where you stand is also really helpful. I always position myself so the wind is blowing the fly line away from my body - and for a right handed caster that would require the wind coming over your left shoulder. That simple step is enough to avoid a hook in the face ... Underlining and overlining would be best thought about with the average distance you're throwing. Underlining would need more line ... more out of the rod tip to feel "comfortable" - so long casts (enough weight) on a windy day would be the best possible ... If however, you're making only short casts it would work at cross purposes. The rod would feel like a pool cue on short and underweighted cast. Likewise for a long cast and overweighted - the rod would have trouble supporting all that weight (of a long cast) in the face of a stiff breeze. I'd prefer to leave the rod at its accustomed weight - flinging the low tight loop versus changing out fly lines and the chaos that ensues.
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