Some of what you discussed might simply be endemic to a market that’s not growing as fast as it used to (or perhaps even shrinking). In some cases, innovation (a better mousetrap) renders gear “obsolete” in the manufacturer’s eyes, but there’s also a fair amount of marketing-driven upgrading going on.

As to how some manufacturers relate to their dealers — and the complaints that you’d hear when the gear in their shop gets dumped on the Internet at half price — I wish I knew.

I have heard this from a couple dealers, and I wonder how much pressure they can bring to bear on one of the big manufacturers.

Perhaps the real question is ; Why? What are the business pressures that the manufacturers are living that is driving these seemingly cannibalistic policies?
Is there a role that the retailers can play that doesn’t put an undo burden on them?
What explanation is being offered by the vendors?
If growth has plateaued for the manufacturer (I gotta believe that it has for many of them)then perhaps this practice is seen as the only way to squeeze out more profit – by making the retailer eat the over production.
I wonder if the answer will be found out side of the fly fishing retailing industry? My guess is that this phenomenon has been seen before in other maturing specialty retail business’s.

Fight the good fight retailers!

One made a good case that it’s not the big boxes crushing fly shops so much as fly fishing’s bigger manufacturers tilting in favor of big boxes.

For example, some manufacturers demand large pre-season orders from their dealers — the kind of order that’s harder for a small fly shop to absorb.

At the end of that season, a change is made to the product, and the manufacturer’s entire remaining stock of old stuff goes into the sale bin (the Internet is dotted with closeout specialists) and suddenly, the small dealer is left with a pile of gear that’s selling — with the blessing of the manufacturer — at half the price written on the tag.

Interestingly, all the fly shop owners thought competition from big boxes was inevitable and not necessarily lethal. Still, the economics are daunting, and there seems to be a universal suggestion that the larger fly fishing manufacturers aren’t helping one bit.

That’s when I got an earful, and though I didn’t really know Ian at the time, it didn’t sound right, and now that I know him, it sounds downright petty. Or unfriendly.

So yeah, I apparently did walk into the middle of a local dispute, but no, it didn’t make me feel the love. That’s all. Lots of folks love ‘em, and they’re still the poster children for leveraging the Internet.

Regardless of what happened to the Creel, it seems as if the state of the industry interests folks.

I had little intention of publishing industry news on the Underground, but then again, it’s either interesting (like now), or pure entertainment (AFFTA vs Furimsky consumer trade show death match).

More to come.

I’m not sure this was his undoing, but something did and ran poor Pancho to an early grave. He used to lament as I tried to sell him Pautzke’s eggs and Hardy reels in the same trip… “People up here (Dunsmuir) want me to do special things like order a freaking spring for their 1946 Mitchell Reel but then go to Pay Less in Redding and buy all the rest of their tackle.”

Soon enough, after nearly 80 years of business, the Big Liquor closed it’s doors and remains a vacant reminder of Dunsmuir’s former glory.

Pancho tried insurance for a while and finally put it all behind him in one night of despair and melancholy.

Last fall I stopped in at my favorite local dive “A-1 fish market” in Oakland, up for sale and looking rather like a former soviet store, bare shelves and dust. The family has had enough, the store that Dad built years ago falling to ruin.

Before that the largest Sporting Goods store in Oakland had closed as the Gun Laws simply made selling them impossible here. They had Sage Rods and lots for nice flys and gear… all gone now.

I also remember well the day Bill Barth in Chico shot himself over the dying store and his brother followed suit two weeks later, forever orphaning the big brown trout which had been over their door for 30 years.

Hell, I RAN a fishing store in Chico and we went under within 2 years.

Whose fault? Ours. Mine. Yours. Your Wallet and your Credit Card. Our basic GREED to keep a penny from one man because he has the audacity to have to charge it in profit. We suck. We kill small business, while we stroll down the Aisles of Wal-Mart pushing a half ton of crap.

Why is there no good hardware available in America now? Why is everything plastic made in the last 20 years decaying into the atmosphere leaving fragile, toxic crap which falls to dust in time, when I have 1953 Tupperware Glasses still pliable, colofrul and useful?

It’s because we have only loyalty to our pocketbooks, and screw my neighbor who has the balls to charge a fair price! Let him (and his family) eat Fish!

I own up to it… it’s all my fault and I’m guilty as charged.

Hang me with a Sci-Anglers line with Sealy hooks in my nipples!

The dynamics affecting fly shops, such as internet sales and “big boxes”, are found in most businesses today. The local lumber yard or hardware store or drug store all face the pressures. But, within a mile of my house is a large Home Depot and two family owned Ace Hardwares. The Ace’s are always full of customers because they add value to what they offer. And they have some unique products.

While Home Depot is the largest retailer in many product groups, in many areas they are beaten by independent retailers daily. Carpet would be an example. Why? Because that is a “value added” product for 75% of the consumers. They need more than “product”.

The independent dealer cannot compete with the big boxes or the internet when the issue is just to buy a product in a package. Hardware, flooring, paint, plumbing, lighting, and other dealers compete successfully by providing the customer with some value added services that are usually missing at the big box. If a customer wants a spool of 5X tippet, they are likely to buy it at the easiest place. That may be the internet. I know I do.

When I go in to the local Orvis store the shoppers there are buying a diverse assortment of items. Shirts, pants, luggage, and other “non-fishing” goods. Creating higher sales and attracting the spouses of the “fly-fisher”. A lot of the money spent in households is spent by the spouse. For fly shops to prosper, they may have to offer products and services that the owner is not particularly good at themselves although they may be the better at fishing than the folks at the big box.

Guide services, trips, classes, related products ( one person suggested digital cameras), clothing, sunglasses, etc. are items that many of the successful stores have to have
to attract and sell a broader base of customer. I doubt Orvis would be a fraction of their size if they just sold fly rods.

Ace Hardware and True Value offer the independent a platform from which they can compete better against the “big boxes”. Maybe there is a place for a coop of independent fly shops. But, the independent fly shop owners will have to forego some of the very thing they want and that is to be “independent” and acknowledge that they do not have some of the very skills they need to compete themselves and will need to import them. I love the family hardware, the family fly shop and the local barber. Offering internet can help. But the issue is bigger than that single item.

Good luck to all the ccourageous entrepenuers.

Great stuff. Today’s fly fishing retailer is no different than most other retail establishments; if you’re in the business to stand behind a counter and sell stuff, you’re in trouble.

I don’t think that’s very different from most other businesses. Hell, I’m just a copywriter, but in order to succeed, I’ve had to become an engagement marketing expert, marketing consultant, blogger, etc.

I always wanted to own a small fly shop. I didn’t care about becoming rich off the venture – I just wanted to be involved in something I loved immensely on a daily basis.

I paid for both my college and grad school education by tying flies for resale and working several large sporting goods stores in the fishing tackle department. The experience was a real eye-opener about supply/demand, consumer driven product sales, and the competitiveness of the sports-related industries. More on that in a minute.

Fresh out of college I opened a fly shop in Utah (with a couple of partners). We all had other full time jobs but managed to keep the thing going with a lot of sacrifice and nights/weekends away from home. The experience was very challenging and rewarding even though I soon decided that making a decent living in this industry would be very difficult.

The dream of the fly shop owner (tying flies, BSing with friends, testing new equipment, lots of fishing to keep up on local conditions) is hardly the reality of the daily grind of the specialty retailer. None of those things put much money in the pocket.

A lot of you have talked about big box and the Internet driving the small shop owner out of business. The dynamics of changing markets and understanding how they affect your niche are certainly important factors in retail success in any market.

But little attention has been directed toward the demand side of the fly fishing niche dilemma. It seems there is a ton of supply and a trickle of demand. The imbalance is not good for the retailer that can’t compete, won’t compete, or that refuses to recognize both the challenges and the opportunities in front of him.

Most fly shop owners continue to bang their heads against the wall because they can’t compete with the big boxes on price, breadth and depth of offerings, pizzazz, advertising, etc, etc.

What they fail to see are the opportunities for income in other areas that the big boys haven’t ventured into.

Yes, one is outstanding service which has been mentioned several times in this thread. But there are many others. An obvious area with plenty of wide open space is innovation in flies, equipment, clothing, etc.

Another is fly fishing education (long distance learning) – not just books, magazine, videos, etc that you now see – but live real-time instruction and entertainment. Another area with huge potential is networking and social gathering of fly fishers.

There are lots of other opportunities as well to carve out a niche in fly fishing if the owner will pay attention to what the addicts in the niche really want to experience. The key is offering what the customer wants and doing it in a way that is unique so that you don’t have easy knock-offs of your business idea and model.

Let’s face it – the demand for the usual fly fishing products (especially flies, but also rods, reels, lines, etc) is not unlimited. There is only a small finite number of prospects in the market, for say a fly rod, at any given time. I own a dozen or so rods (I’m really not sure how many) but I haven’t purchased a new one in the past 15 years.

Another factor is this: look at all the tackle that’s changing hands on eBay alone. There has never been a secondary market like this for fly fishing equipment that significantly reduces the amount of sales of new tackle at retailers.

Add the fact that fewer young people these days develop outdoor hobbies, natural resources are dwindling, the good streams and lake are becoming more crowded, gas is way more expensive than in the past . . . and you begin to see the picture painted for the typical “small guy” retailer gets uglier all the time.

Here’s an interesting exercise: do a free keyword search at wordtracker and you’ll see that the term “fly fishing equipment” is being searched online 125 times daily. That may, at first, seem like a lot of interest. Other searches are “fly fishing rods” (122), “fly fishing reels” (77), “fly fishing tackle” (60), “fly fishing vest” (57), “books on fly fishing” (44), “fly fishing lines” (23) etc. These are the things the typical fly shop sells at the usual 40% markup.

Divide that interest up among all the sellers of those items (including eBay, Cabelas, Bass Pro Shops, Walmart, yada, yada) and the picture begins to become clear. Yes, this is only the online searches being done – but in relative terms, compared to other industries and products searches, fly fishing product interest is miniscule.

Digital cameras (4,417), guns (11,065), cell phones (9,141), furniture (7,111), ipods (21,473), and on, an on. You’d have far less competition selling “bigfoot photos” (4,782) than all the fly fishing products combined!

Do searches on today’s “hobbies” like computer games, music videos, myspace pages, etc and you begin to understand more about the demand side of products in today’s world.

Fly shop owners will have a future if they are in the business for reasons other than making a lot of money because fly fishers enjoy the experience of browsing, being among kindred spirits, and “talking shop” with management and other customers. But those owners that don’t capitalize on being remarkable, innovative, unique, or all together different, will continue to struggle in product sales because of the numerous venues of supply. I don’t see the demand for typical fly fishing products significantly increasing any time soon.

I’d also carry a line of digital photography equipment geared for the outdoors/active lifestyle crowd.

Classes, classes, classes…offer free classes to teach people to use the stuff you sell (and to teach them WHY they SHOULD use the stuff you sell). Get a PE class at the local college…or at least a continuing ed class. Set up a frequent shopper benefits program like the big box retailers all have. Host competitions of various sorts (folks seem to really dig those nowadays). Book signings, celeb appearances, etc. And don’t decorate the place like your grandpa’s garage. Oh yeah…and shave the freaking hillbilly beards and lose the gut.

I agree with most of the other comments:

–When I do go online looking for products or info, plain-Jane sites don’t do it for me. Neither do out of date ones. Or those that just regurgitate the marketing blurbs supplied by the manufacturer. Tell me what you REALLY think for goshsakes. I want someone to cut through the hype and help me make a decision!

–Stop with the attitude and start with the selling. It’s quite easy to convince someone to pick up a few flies, some new tippet, or a magazine. Treat ALL of your customers with respect and interest, not just the one’s you know, are in your decade, or have big hooters. Make them feel like they are special. Give them a reason NOT to go online. Start an email list to replace all tippet every Spring. Tying classes in the winter. Father’s day packages. Mother’s day packages. Sell people on how you are part of the community. Get involved with TU. Get involved with the fishing derby (stockers will eat flies just as fast as a worm or pellet). The list goes on.

–Even good local shops don’t carry every brand, so know your products and know the competition. Tell me why I should buy yours. And if you think yours isn’t as good for me as another, send me to another, small, local shop within 1 hour drive and decent fishing. Your honesty will keep me coming back.

Well there’s more, but I gotta get back to work.