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	<title>Comments on: The Latest On Your Right To Fly Fish the Upper Sac &amp; McCloud: It&#8217;s Getting Uglier.</title>
	<atom:link href="http://troutunderground.com/2007/10/25/the-latest-on-your-right-to-fly-fish-the-upper-sac-mccloud-its-getting-uglier/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://troutunderground.com/2007/10/25/the-latest-on-your-right-to-fly-fish-the-upper-sac-mccloud-its-getting-uglier/</link>
	<description>Fly Fishing the Upper Sacramento River : Tom Chandler&#039;s Fly Fishing Life : Fly Rods are the Measure of Life</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 16 Mar 2010 03:58:46 -0700</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Electric Fishing Reels For Sale</title>
		<link>http://troutunderground.com/2007/10/25/the-latest-on-your-right-to-fly-fish-the-upper-sac-mccloud-its-getting-uglier/comment-page-1/#comment-51060</link>
		<dc:creator>Electric Fishing Reels For Sale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Oct 2008 11:37:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://troutunderground.com/2007/10/25/the-latest-on-your-right-to-fly-fish-the-upper-sac-mccloud-its-getting-uglier/#comment-51060</guid>
		<description>It is good to see activist sentiments still exist in the world. it is unfortunate that some politicians are so obtuse that they cannot see the greater picture AND comprehend it. Develop, develop, develop that is all they seem to understand. Too many corporation have politicians sole attention. I would be nice to be able to leep politicians from being allowed to consider goofy moves like this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is good to see activist sentiments still exist in the world. it is unfortunate that some politicians are so obtuse that they cannot see the greater picture AND comprehend it. Develop, develop, develop that is all they seem to understand. Too many corporation have politicians sole attention. I would be nice to be able to leep politicians from being allowed to consider goofy moves like this.</p>
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		<title>By: Fishing Reels For Sale</title>
		<link>http://troutunderground.com/2007/10/25/the-latest-on-your-right-to-fly-fish-the-upper-sac-mccloud-its-getting-uglier/comment-page-1/#comment-51033</link>
		<dc:creator>Fishing Reels For Sale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Oct 2008 12:50:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://troutunderground.com/2007/10/25/the-latest-on-your-right-to-fly-fish-the-upper-sac-mccloud-its-getting-uglier/#comment-51033</guid>
		<description>I know i am coming a bit late to the party. But, if you ever run into a similar issue. There is one thing that all politicians, no matter party, or personal disposition, respond to, volunteerring.  i have worked on several political campaigns in the past. primarily my college days. The one thing that any politician fears..more so local politicians...is a cadre of local citizens willing to volunteer for their upcoming opponent in the next election.

Why does this work. Because volunteers meet face to face with constituents. These types of meetings, particularly with local politics, have a greater impact than any other type of political advertisement. 

You want a politician to do something and there is a significant number wanting the same thing. Let them know you will not just donate to their opponents campaign but will work for their opponents in the next election and they will sit up and take a closer look at your issues.

I have seen this done on several occasions and it is always amazing to me how the light bulb switches on in a politicans head once they know their decisions are not just amassing bad sentiment but an army of political operatives as well. They tend to do some quick reevaluatig.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know i am coming a bit late to the party. But, if you ever run into a similar issue. There is one thing that all politicians, no matter party, or personal disposition, respond to, volunteerring.  i have worked on several political campaigns in the past. primarily my college days. The one thing that any politician fears..more so local politicians&#8230;is a cadre of local citizens willing to volunteer for their upcoming opponent in the next election.</p>
<p>Why does this work. Because volunteers meet face to face with constituents. These types of meetings, particularly with local politics, have a greater impact than any other type of political advertisement. </p>
<p>You want a politician to do something and there is a significant number wanting the same thing. Let them know you will not just donate to their opponents campaign but will work for their opponents in the next election and they will sit up and take a closer look at your issues.</p>
<p>I have seen this done on several occasions and it is always amazing to me how the light bulb switches on in a politicans head once they know their decisions are not just amassing bad sentiment but an army of political operatives as well. They tend to do some quick reevaluatig.</p>
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		<title>By: Crap. Our Last Chance to Stop Siskiyou County&#8217;s Natural Resource Policy. (It Looks Like We&#8217;re Losing.) : The Trout Underground Fly Fishing Blog</title>
		<link>http://troutunderground.com/2007/10/25/the-latest-on-your-right-to-fly-fish-the-upper-sac-mccloud-its-getting-uglier/comment-page-1/#comment-18442</link>
		<dc:creator>Crap. Our Last Chance to Stop Siskiyou County&#8217;s Natural Resource Policy. (It Looks Like We&#8217;re Losing.) : The Trout Underground Fly Fishing Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Nov 2007 02:02:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://troutunderground.com/2007/10/25/the-latest-on-your-right-to-fly-fish-the-upper-sac-mccloud-its-getting-uglier/#comment-18442</guid>
		<description>[...] I&#8217;m pissed. For the past week and half, I&#8217;ve been playing &#8220;nice&#8221; around the Siskiyou County Natural Resources Plan &#8212; the one that threatens our legal right to access and fish the rivers of Siskiyou County. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I&#8217;m pissed. For the past week and half, I&#8217;ve been playing &#8220;nice&#8221; around the Siskiyou County Natural Resources Plan &#8212; the one that threatens our legal right to access and fish the rivers of Siskiyou County. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: gmail &#187; The Latest On Your Right To Fly Fish the Upper Sac &#38; McCloud: It’s &#8230;</title>
		<link>http://troutunderground.com/2007/10/25/the-latest-on-your-right-to-fly-fish-the-upper-sac-mccloud-its-getting-uglier/comment-page-1/#comment-16982</link>
		<dc:creator>gmail &#187; The Latest On Your Right To Fly Fish the Upper Sac &#38; McCloud: It’s &#8230;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Oct 2007 06:11:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://troutunderground.com/2007/10/25/the-latest-on-your-right-to-fly-fish-the-upper-sac-mccloud-its-getting-uglier/#comment-16982</guid>
		<description>[...] the rest of this great post here    [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the rest of this great post here    [...]</p>
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		<title>By: C3C Raine</title>
		<link>http://troutunderground.com/2007/10/25/the-latest-on-your-right-to-fly-fish-the-upper-sac-mccloud-its-getting-uglier/comment-page-1/#comment-16977</link>
		<dc:creator>C3C Raine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Oct 2007 05:31:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://troutunderground.com/2007/10/25/the-latest-on-your-right-to-fly-fish-the-upper-sac-mccloud-its-getting-uglier/#comment-16977</guid>
		<description>My apologies, those comments were simply an off-subject citation of the way things seem to work in our county as far as politics, justice, and protection of public rights goes...probably the same anywhere. I meant it to reflect this situation in that they&#039;re doing this, an illegal and injust act, because they fully believe they&#039;ll get away with it unscathed - sad thing is, they probably will. 

I&#039;ll be sure to make this sorta thing a little more generalized and less targeted if I do something similar in the future.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My apologies, those comments were simply an off-subject citation of the way things seem to work in our county as far as politics, justice, and protection of public rights goes&#8230;probably the same anywhere. I meant it to reflect this situation in that they&#8217;re doing this, an illegal and injust act, because they fully believe they&#8217;ll get away with it unscathed &#8211; sad thing is, they probably will. </p>
<p>I&#8217;ll be sure to make this sorta thing a little more generalized and less targeted if I do something similar in the future.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Chandler</title>
		<link>http://troutunderground.com/2007/10/25/the-latest-on-your-right-to-fly-fish-the-upper-sac-mccloud-its-getting-uglier/comment-page-1/#comment-16962</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Chandler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Oct 2007 02:46:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://troutunderground.com/2007/10/25/the-latest-on-your-right-to-fly-fish-the-upper-sac-mccloud-its-getting-uglier/#comment-16962</guid>
		<description>C3C: The email looked great. I&#039;d like to reiterate what overmywaders mentioned; a couple e-mails were somewhat impolite, and even though they&#039;re a small fraction of what was sent, they&#039;re being highlighted in an attempt to negate the rest. 

Be firm but polite.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>C3C: The email looked great. I&#8217;d like to reiterate what overmywaders mentioned; a couple e-mails were somewhat impolite, and even though they&#8217;re a small fraction of what was sent, they&#8217;re being highlighted in an attempt to negate the rest. </p>
<p>Be firm but polite.</p>
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		<title>By: overmywaders</title>
		<link>http://troutunderground.com/2007/10/25/the-latest-on-your-right-to-fly-fish-the-upper-sac-mccloud-its-getting-uglier/comment-page-1/#comment-16948</link>
		<dc:creator>overmywaders</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Oct 2007 00:05:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://troutunderground.com/2007/10/25/the-latest-on-your-right-to-fly-fish-the-upper-sac-mccloud-its-getting-uglier/#comment-16948</guid>
		<description>Chris,

Usually it is remarks like your&#039;s (suggesting senseless vandalism) which undermine a solid cause. Ms. Armstrong would be remiss if she didn&#039;t copy your remark and use it to indicate the character of the people opposing her - &quot;They are threatening violence against the citizens of Siskiyou County&quot;. 

The issue is legal and moral. Your suggested response is, alas, neither.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris,</p>
<p>Usually it is remarks like your&#8217;s (suggesting senseless vandalism) which undermine a solid cause. Ms. Armstrong would be remiss if she didn&#8217;t copy your remark and use it to indicate the character of the people opposing her &#8211; &#8220;They are threatening violence against the citizens of Siskiyou County&#8221;. </p>
<p>The issue is legal and moral. Your suggested response is, alas, neither.</p>
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		<title>By: C3C Raine</title>
		<link>http://troutunderground.com/2007/10/25/the-latest-on-your-right-to-fly-fish-the-upper-sac-mccloud-its-getting-uglier/comment-page-1/#comment-16940</link>
		<dc:creator>C3C Raine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Oct 2007 23:10:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://troutunderground.com/2007/10/25/the-latest-on-your-right-to-fly-fish-the-upper-sac-mccloud-its-getting-uglier/#comment-16940</guid>
		<description>You know, if worse comes to worse, I know of some kids (low-lifes really) down in dunsmuir who like to smash in people windshield for literally no more reason than someone suggested it - best part is that apparently police can&#039;t do anything about it even when someone writes something like this somwhere like this, &quot;it doesn&#039;t prove anything.&quot; Just throwin this out there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know, if worse comes to worse, I know of some kids (low-lifes really) down in dunsmuir who like to smash in people windshield for literally no more reason than someone suggested it &#8211; best part is that apparently police can&#8217;t do anything about it even when someone writes something like this somwhere like this, &#8220;it doesn&#8217;t prove anything.&#8221; Just throwin this out there.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Chandler</title>
		<link>http://troutunderground.com/2007/10/25/the-latest-on-your-right-to-fly-fish-the-upper-sac-mccloud-its-getting-uglier/comment-page-1/#comment-16934</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Chandler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Oct 2007 22:35:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://troutunderground.com/2007/10/25/the-latest-on-your-right-to-fly-fish-the-upper-sac-mccloud-its-getting-uglier/#comment-16934</guid>
		<description>Jim: Ok, peace. And it&#039;s about water in that there are a lot of endangered species his headed the way of those who divert water from the things.

Ms. Armstrong feels the water&#039;s there for agricultural use (period), and wants to head off the eventual restrictions on diversions. 

I think it may come down to a lawsuit, but I want the supervisors to vote on this thing (or throw it out) so blame for the resulting lawsuits (waste of my tax dollars) can be apportioned come the next election...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jim: Ok, peace. And it&#8217;s about water in that there are a lot of endangered species his headed the way of those who divert water from the things.</p>
<p>Ms. Armstrong feels the water&#8217;s there for agricultural use (period), and wants to head off the eventual restrictions on diversions. </p>
<p>I think it may come down to a lawsuit, but I want the supervisors to vote on this thing (or throw it out) so blame for the resulting lawsuits (waste of my tax dollars) can be apportioned come the next election&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: C3C Raine</title>
		<link>http://troutunderground.com/2007/10/25/the-latest-on-your-right-to-fly-fish-the-upper-sac-mccloud-its-getting-uglier/comment-page-1/#comment-16868</link>
		<dc:creator>C3C Raine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Oct 2007 07:04:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://troutunderground.com/2007/10/25/the-latest-on-your-right-to-fly-fish-the-upper-sac-mccloud-its-getting-uglier/#comment-16868</guid>
		<description>Mail&#039;s off, you were cc&#039;d tom, let me know what you think.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mail&#8217;s off, you were cc&#8217;d tom, let me know what you think.</p>
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		<title>By: jim jones</title>
		<link>http://troutunderground.com/2007/10/25/the-latest-on-your-right-to-fly-fish-the-upper-sac-mccloud-its-getting-uglier/comment-page-1/#comment-16837</link>
		<dc:creator>jim jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Oct 2007 02:19:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://troutunderground.com/2007/10/25/the-latest-on-your-right-to-fly-fish-the-upper-sac-mccloud-its-getting-uglier/#comment-16837</guid>
		<description>Oops, should have checked my facts before posting.  It&#039;s the California Sportfishing Protection Alliance http://users.rcn.com/ccate/CSPAPagerev0.html.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oops, should have checked my facts before posting.  It&#8217;s the California Sportfishing Protection Alliance <a href="http://users.rcn.com/ccate/CSPAPagerev0.html" rel="nofollow">http://users.rcn.com/ccate/CSPAPagerev0.html</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: jim jones</title>
		<link>http://troutunderground.com/2007/10/25/the-latest-on-your-right-to-fly-fish-the-upper-sac-mccloud-its-getting-uglier/comment-page-1/#comment-16835</link>
		<dc:creator>jim jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Oct 2007 02:15:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://troutunderground.com/2007/10/25/the-latest-on-your-right-to-fly-fish-the-upper-sac-mccloud-its-getting-uglier/#comment-16835</guid>
		<description>Okay, Tom,

You got me--hook,line and sinker (well, micro-shot, anyway).  Great piece, so Peace.  Thanks for bringing the Scott and Shasta Rivers into the discussion.  You got it exactly right.  It&#039;s not just (or perhaps even mainly) about access there.  

It&#039;s about water.  If there are no anglers, there is no oversight of the excessive (and unscreened) diversions for growing (mostly) alfalfa.  The folks in Siskyou County don&#039;t get it yet, and as on the Sacramento River below Keswick, the American River, Owens Valley and the San Joaquin River (hopefully), I&#039;m afraid it&#039;s gonna take the proverbial board between the mules&#039; eyes to get their attention.  

It took a lawsuit to put the Sac River winter run salmon on the Endangered Species list and get the old board of directors of the Tehemal Colusa Irrigation Dist. replaced by a more progressive group.  Same approach--lawsuits--were required with the American River and the others I&#039;ve mentioned.  California Sport Fishing Alliance has a very good track record in &quot;suing the bastards.&quot;     

There are several legal bases for stopping the dewatering of the Scott and Shasta: Public Trust Doctrine, Endangered Species Act, Cal. Constitution (which is one of the avenues we used against East Bay Municipal Utility District, Fish and Game Code. 

The State Lands Commission, depending on who is currently on it (sadly, under Rep. admins there has been less sympathy for public access), has been agressive, at times, on access issues.

Just some thoughts.  Really busy lately (fact checking :)), but, I&#039;ll try to give this issue a bit of a boost in the circles I travel in.  

Thanks again,

Jim</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Okay, Tom,</p>
<p>You got me&#8211;hook,line and sinker (well, micro-shot, anyway).  Great piece, so Peace.  Thanks for bringing the Scott and Shasta Rivers into the discussion.  You got it exactly right.  It&#8217;s not just (or perhaps even mainly) about access there.  </p>
<p>It&#8217;s about water.  If there are no anglers, there is no oversight of the excessive (and unscreened) diversions for growing (mostly) alfalfa.  The folks in Siskyou County don&#8217;t get it yet, and as on the Sacramento River below Keswick, the American River, Owens Valley and the San Joaquin River (hopefully), I&#8217;m afraid it&#8217;s gonna take the proverbial board between the mules&#8217; eyes to get their attention.  </p>
<p>It took a lawsuit to put the Sac River winter run salmon on the Endangered Species list and get the old board of directors of the Tehemal Colusa Irrigation Dist. replaced by a more progressive group.  Same approach&#8211;lawsuits&#8211;were required with the American River and the others I&#8217;ve mentioned.  California Sport Fishing Alliance has a very good track record in &#8220;suing the bastards.&#8221;     </p>
<p>There are several legal bases for stopping the dewatering of the Scott and Shasta: Public Trust Doctrine, Endangered Species Act, Cal. Constitution (which is one of the avenues we used against East Bay Municipal Utility District, Fish and Game Code. </p>
<p>The State Lands Commission, depending on who is currently on it (sadly, under Rep. admins there has been less sympathy for public access), has been agressive, at times, on access issues.</p>
<p>Just some thoughts.  Really busy lately (fact checking :)), but, I&#8217;ll try to give this issue a bit of a boost in the circles I travel in.  </p>
<p>Thanks again,</p>
<p>Jim</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Chandler</title>
		<link>http://troutunderground.com/2007/10/25/the-latest-on-your-right-to-fly-fish-the-upper-sac-mccloud-its-getting-uglier/comment-page-1/#comment-16807</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Chandler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Oct 2007 19:50:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://troutunderground.com/2007/10/25/the-latest-on-your-right-to-fly-fish-the-upper-sac-mccloud-its-getting-uglier/#comment-16807</guid>
		<description>C3C: You got it. River Dancers runs trips every spring on the Scott. 

Navigable....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>C3C: You got it. River Dancers runs trips every spring on the Scott. </p>
<p>Navigable&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: C3C Raine</title>
		<link>http://troutunderground.com/2007/10/25/the-latest-on-your-right-to-fly-fish-the-upper-sac-mccloud-its-getting-uglier/comment-page-1/#comment-16802</link>
		<dc:creator>C3C Raine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Oct 2007 18:56:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://troutunderground.com/2007/10/25/the-latest-on-your-right-to-fly-fish-the-upper-sac-mccloud-its-getting-uglier/#comment-16802</guid>
		<description>Nevermind, it doesn&#039;t matter

From State of California:
&quot;Members of the public have the right to navigate and to exercise the incidents of navigation in a lawful manner at any point below high water mark on waters of this state which are capable of being navigated by oar or motor propelled small craft.?  (People ex rel. Baker v. Mack (3d Dist.1971) 19 Cal.App.3d 1040, 1050 [97 Cal.Rptr. 448, 454].)  This includes waterways capable of being navigated only by kayak. (People v. Sweetser (5th Dist. 1977) 72 Cal.App.3d 278, 283 [140 Cal.Rptr. 82].)  Commercial use of a waterway is not required as ?a waterway usable only for pleasure boating is nevertheless a navigable waterway and protected by the public trust.?  (National Audubon Society v. Superior Court (1983) 33 Cal.3d 419, 435 n.17 [189 Cal.Rptr. 346, 658 P.2d 709].)  citing People ex rel. Younger v. County of El Dorado (3d Dist. 1979) 96 Cal.App.3d 403 [157 Cal.Rptr. 815, 817] and  People ex rel. Baker v. Mack (3d Dist.1971) 19 Cal.App.3d 1040 [97 Cal.Rptr. 448, 454].)&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nevermind, it doesn&#8217;t matter</p>
<p>From State of California:<br />
&#8220;Members of the public have the right to navigate and to exercise the incidents of navigation in a lawful manner at any point below high water mark on waters of this state which are capable of being navigated by oar or motor propelled small craft.?  (People ex rel. Baker v. Mack (3d Dist.1971) 19 Cal.App.3d 1040, 1050 [97 Cal.Rptr. 448, 454].)  This includes waterways capable of being navigated only by kayak. (People v. Sweetser (5th Dist. 1977) 72 Cal.App.3d 278, 283 [140 Cal.Rptr. 82].)  Commercial use of a waterway is not required as ?a waterway usable only for pleasure boating is nevertheless a navigable waterway and protected by the public trust.?  (National Audubon Society v. Superior Court (1983) 33 Cal.3d 419, 435 n.17 [189 Cal.Rptr. 346, 658 P.2d 709].)  citing People ex rel. Younger v. County of El Dorado (3d Dist. 1979) 96 Cal.App.3d 403 [157 Cal.Rptr. 815, 817] and  People ex rel. Baker v. Mack (3d Dist.1971) 19 Cal.App.3d 1040 [97 Cal.Rptr. 448, 454].)&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: C3C Raine</title>
		<link>http://troutunderground.com/2007/10/25/the-latest-on-your-right-to-fly-fish-the-upper-sac-mccloud-its-getting-uglier/comment-page-1/#comment-16801</link>
		<dc:creator>C3C Raine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Oct 2007 18:49:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://troutunderground.com/2007/10/25/the-latest-on-your-right-to-fly-fish-the-upper-sac-mccloud-its-getting-uglier/#comment-16801</guid>
		<description>&quot;And I’d love to see a north/south breakdown of the county’s revenue sources.&quot;

Those are the sort of facts I&#039;m talking about...they should be on public record somewhere too.

Now, can ANYONE tell me whether or not a river rafting business counts as commercial use?

Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;And I’d love to see a north/south breakdown of the county’s revenue sources.&#8221;</p>
<p>Those are the sort of facts I&#8217;m talking about&#8230;they should be on public record somewhere too.</p>
<p>Now, can ANYONE tell me whether or not a river rafting business counts as commercial use?</p>
<p>Thanks.</p>
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