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	<title>Comments on: How Do We Protect Fly Fishing From the French?</title>
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	<link>http://troutunderground.com/2007/06/29/how-do-we-protect-fly-fishing-from-the-french/</link>
	<description>Fly Fishing the Upper Sacramento River : Tom Chandler&#039;s Fly Fishing Life : Fly Rods are the Measure of Life</description>
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		<title>By: Knapek, Scientific Fly, and Dohiku - Competition manifests itself in your fly box &#124; River Tails</title>
		<link>http://troutunderground.com/2007/06/29/how-do-we-protect-fly-fishing-from-the-french/comment-page-1/#comment-49623</link>
		<dc:creator>Knapek, Scientific Fly, and Dohiku - Competition manifests itself in your fly box &#124; River Tails</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jul 2008 07:26:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://troutunderground.com/2007/06/29/how-do-we-protect-fly-fishing-from-the-french/#comment-49623</guid>
		<description>[...] A cursory look at their offerings suggests we may see some changes in the mainstream market, as many of these hooks are being adopted by competition anglers - something the US has always been reluctant to acknowledge. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] A cursory look at their offerings suggests we may see some changes in the mainstream market, as many of these hooks are being adopted by competition anglers &#8211; something the US has always been reluctant to acknowledge. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: KW Morrow</title>
		<link>http://troutunderground.com/2007/06/29/how-do-we-protect-fly-fishing-from-the-french/comment-page-1/#comment-9698</link>
		<dc:creator>KW Morrow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jul 2007 00:50:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://troutunderground.com/2007/06/29/how-do-we-protect-fly-fishing-from-the-french/#comment-9698</guid>
		<description>You ever heard Dave Whitlock&#039;s Zap-A-Gap endorsement story? If not, you should make a point of it.  I laughed all weekend about that a few weeks ago when I had the privelege of spending the weekend with him and Emily.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You ever heard Dave Whitlock&#8217;s Zap-A-Gap endorsement story? If not, you should make a point of it.  I laughed all weekend about that a few weeks ago when I had the privelege of spending the weekend with him and Emily.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Chandler</title>
		<link>http://troutunderground.com/2007/06/29/how-do-we-protect-fly-fishing-from-the-french/comment-page-1/#comment-9692</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Chandler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jul 2007 21:08:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://troutunderground.com/2007/06/29/how-do-we-protect-fly-fishing-from-the-french/#comment-9692</guid>
		<description>Damnit, I want a percentage of the gross, not the net...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Damnit, I want a percentage of the gross, not the net&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: KW Morrow</title>
		<link>http://troutunderground.com/2007/06/29/how-do-we-protect-fly-fishing-from-the-french/comment-page-1/#comment-9681</link>
		<dc:creator>KW Morrow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jul 2007 15:57:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://troutunderground.com/2007/06/29/how-do-we-protect-fly-fishing-from-the-french/#comment-9681</guid>
		<description>We could afford to pay T&amp;T a handsome licensing fee.  We could probably send you a Royal Wulff Tshirt and a T&amp;T hat. LMAO!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We could afford to pay T&amp;T a handsome licensing fee.  We could probably send you a Royal Wulff Tshirt and a T&amp;T hat. LMAO!</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Chandler</title>
		<link>http://troutunderground.com/2007/06/29/how-do-we-protect-fly-fishing-from-the-french/comment-page-1/#comment-9678</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Chandler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jul 2007 15:12:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://troutunderground.com/2007/06/29/how-do-we-protect-fly-fishing-from-the-french/#comment-9678</guid>
		<description>You&#039;d have some copyright concerns about T&amp;T signs, but the Royal Wulff is public domain. How big a cut does the Underground get as the Official Online Retailer??</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;d have some copyright concerns about T&#038;T signs, but the Royal Wulff is public domain. How big a cut does the Underground get as the Official Online Retailer??</p>
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		<title>By: KW Morrow</title>
		<link>http://troutunderground.com/2007/06/29/how-do-we-protect-fly-fishing-from-the-french/comment-page-1/#comment-9645</link>
		<dc:creator>KW Morrow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jul 2007 17:24:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://troutunderground.com/2007/06/29/how-do-we-protect-fly-fishing-from-the-french/#comment-9645</guid>
		<description>LOL, Tom.  As soon as I typed that I thought, &quot;Oh dammit!  I shouldn&#039;t have let that cat out of the bag.  I could make a FORTUNE selling those to 100 fly fishermen for about $5,000 each.&quot;  Just think what you could charge for Thomas &amp; Thomas neon bar sign, dude? LOL

(pssst...and I know a shop in China where we can have them made to order and air shipped to any address in the US for about $10 each.  so the margins are awesome!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LOL, Tom.  As soon as I typed that I thought, &#8220;Oh dammit!  I shouldn&#8217;t have let that cat out of the bag.  I could make a FORTUNE selling those to 100 fly fishermen for about $5,000 each.&#8221;  Just think what you could charge for Thomas &amp; Thomas neon bar sign, dude? LOL</p>
<p>(pssst&#8230;and I know a shop in China where we can have them made to order and air shipped to any address in the US for about $10 each.  so the margins are awesome!)</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Chandler</title>
		<link>http://troutunderground.com/2007/06/29/how-do-we-protect-fly-fishing-from-the-french/comment-page-1/#comment-9643</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Chandler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jul 2007 16:10:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://troutunderground.com/2007/06/29/how-do-we-protect-fly-fishing-from-the-french/#comment-9643</guid>
		<description>I would kill for one of those bar signs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would kill for one of those bar signs.</p>
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		<title>By: KW Morrow</title>
		<link>http://troutunderground.com/2007/06/29/how-do-we-protect-fly-fishing-from-the-french/comment-page-1/#comment-9637</link>
		<dc:creator>KW Morrow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jul 2007 12:44:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://troutunderground.com/2007/06/29/how-do-we-protect-fly-fishing-from-the-french/#comment-9637</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m waiting for the Kelly Galloup and Lefty Krey action figure dolls, the Royal Wulff neon bar signs, and the Frog Hair auto racing decal kits from Camo-Clad.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m waiting for the Kelly Galloup and Lefty Krey action figure dolls, the Royal Wulff neon bar signs, and the Frog Hair auto racing decal kits from Camo-Clad.</p>
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		<title>By: Reed</title>
		<link>http://troutunderground.com/2007/06/29/how-do-we-protect-fly-fishing-from-the-french/comment-page-1/#comment-9626</link>
		<dc:creator>Reed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jun 2007 22:09:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://troutunderground.com/2007/06/29/how-do-we-protect-fly-fishing-from-the-french/#comment-9626</guid>
		<description>Uh, sorry about that, Tom. But, the phone tap has an upside - I regularly now have my bills sent to the FBI, since if we are going to share the service, they should pay as well.

As for the idea of competitive fly fishing, it hasn&#039;t happened thus far because:
Men who stand in flowing cold water over their thighs for long periods may be less interesting or interested in the opposite sex - and sex sells.
Until recent years, waders were baggy, ungainly, and not too unlike the clown wear mentioned in the article. Now they are form-fitting, come in a range of tasteless colors, and accentuate the paunch of many of us with whom gravity has dealt unkindly. Add to the waders all the assorted baubles, fripperies, and geegaws that dangle from our overstuffed vests and a figure emerges that can scarce be taken seriously.

Must rush, the FBI has me on call-waiting.

Best regards,
Reed</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Uh, sorry about that, Tom. But, the phone tap has an upside &#8211; I regularly now have my bills sent to the FBI, since if we are going to share the service, they should pay as well.</p>
<p>As for the idea of competitive fly fishing, it hasn&#8217;t happened thus far because:<br />
Men who stand in flowing cold water over their thighs for long periods may be less interesting or interested in the opposite sex &#8211; and sex sells.<br />
Until recent years, waders were baggy, ungainly, and not too unlike the clown wear mentioned in the article. Now they are form-fitting, come in a range of tasteless colors, and accentuate the paunch of many of us with whom gravity has dealt unkindly. Add to the waders all the assorted baubles, fripperies, and geegaws that dangle from our overstuffed vests and a figure emerges that can scarce be taken seriously.</p>
<p>Must rush, the FBI has me on call-waiting.</p>
<p>Best regards,<br />
Reed</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Chandler</title>
		<link>http://troutunderground.com/2007/06/29/how-do-we-protect-fly-fishing-from-the-french/comment-page-1/#comment-9625</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Chandler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jun 2007 19:50:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://troutunderground.com/2007/06/29/how-do-we-protect-fly-fishing-from-the-french/#comment-9625</guid>
		<description>KW: Great comment. I&#039;d seen the 18% growth figure before, and think it&#039;s not telling us the whole truth. 

For starters, my online economics buddy suggested that&#039;s a pretty weak growth rate over eight years (2.25% per year).

Once you factor in more expensive fly rods, reels, fly lines, guide trips, etc -- and declining participation -- it&#039;s safe to say that revenues might have gone up, but unit sales probably haven&#039;t.

And that&#039;s ignoring all the questions of deferred industry debt (lifetime warranties on fly rods) and growth in the number of suppliers (if supplier growth exceeds industry growth, then it&#039;s possible more are making less).

As the economics whiz put it to me: we&#039;ve got fewer participants supporting an industry by buying ever-more expensive goods. 

That ain&#039;t healthy, and I really would love to see unit sales vs revenues for the last couple years. I&#039;ll bet the last 2-3 years haven&#039;t been pretty.

Regardless of its current state, growth in competitive fly fishing would be good for the industry, so they can be expected to promote it.

It&#039;s left to each fly fisher to decide how they feel about it, but they should so without the false blinders of nationalistic and &quot;saving the future of the sport&quot; arguments. 

Great comments on this thread -- except that last one by Reed. In a single post, he likely plunged the Underground into the vortex of an International Incident &lt;i&gt;and&lt;/i&gt; got my phone tapped. 

Nice going, buddy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>KW: Great comment. I&#8217;d seen the 18% growth figure before, and think it&#8217;s not telling us the whole truth. </p>
<p>For starters, my online economics buddy suggested that&#8217;s a pretty weak growth rate over eight years (2.25% per year).</p>
<p>Once you factor in more expensive fly rods, reels, fly lines, guide trips, etc &#8212; and declining participation &#8212; it&#8217;s safe to say that revenues might have gone up, but unit sales probably haven&#8217;t.</p>
<p>And that&#8217;s ignoring all the questions of deferred industry debt (lifetime warranties on fly rods) and growth in the number of suppliers (if supplier growth exceeds industry growth, then it&#8217;s possible more are making less).</p>
<p>As the economics whiz put it to me: we&#8217;ve got fewer participants supporting an industry by buying ever-more expensive goods. </p>
<p>That ain&#8217;t healthy, and I really would love to see unit sales vs revenues for the last couple years. I&#8217;ll bet the last 2-3 years haven&#8217;t been pretty.</p>
<p>Regardless of its current state, growth in competitive fly fishing would be good for the industry, so they can be expected to promote it.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s left to each fly fisher to decide how they feel about it, but they should so without the false blinders of nationalistic and &#8220;saving the future of the sport&#8221; arguments. </p>
<p>Great comments on this thread &#8212; except that last one by Reed. In a single post, he likely plunged the Underground into the vortex of an International Incident <i>and</i> got my phone tapped. </p>
<p>Nice going, buddy.</p>
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		<title>By: Reed</title>
		<link>http://troutunderground.com/2007/06/29/how-do-we-protect-fly-fishing-from-the-french/comment-page-1/#comment-9619</link>
		<dc:creator>Reed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jun 2007 18:25:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://troutunderground.com/2007/06/29/how-do-we-protect-fly-fishing-from-the-french/#comment-9619</guid>
		<description>Dear Doug,

I appreciate the invitation and sincerely wish that I could join you on your streams, but the physical challenges are beyond my aging capacity. Oh, I could manage the wading and the casting;  however, to do both while keeping my left eyebrow raised and a perpetual sneer on my lips is, I fear, impossible to me. Graceful hauteur is a sport unto itself, combining it with any other and performing both simultaneously would tax the powers of any brutish American. It is like asking a one-armed, mono-pedal waiter to carry and decant the Port without raising sediment while also juggling the glasses.

I once expressed bemusement over a piece of cutlery presented to me prior to the fish course at a small restaurant in Lyon. My host and friend, with only a trace of his Breton accent and a slight curling of the lip said &quot;Perhaps when we French introduced Americans to haute cuisine we should have included a manual on the utensils as well.&quot; (I still writhe at the skillfulness of the thrust.) How can we possibly compete with that? Take but a moment to consider our President, our chosen representative to the world community, and his conversational adroitness. We despair.

Best regards,
Reed</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Doug,</p>
<p>I appreciate the invitation and sincerely wish that I could join you on your streams, but the physical challenges are beyond my aging capacity. Oh, I could manage the wading and the casting;  however, to do both while keeping my left eyebrow raised and a perpetual sneer on my lips is, I fear, impossible to me. Graceful hauteur is a sport unto itself, combining it with any other and performing both simultaneously would tax the powers of any brutish American. It is like asking a one-armed, mono-pedal waiter to carry and decant the Port without raising sediment while also juggling the glasses.</p>
<p>I once expressed bemusement over a piece of cutlery presented to me prior to the fish course at a small restaurant in Lyon. My host and friend, with only a trace of his Breton accent and a slight curling of the lip said &#8220;Perhaps when we French introduced Americans to haute cuisine we should have included a manual on the utensils as well.&#8221; (I still writhe at the skillfulness of the thrust.) How can we possibly compete with that? Take but a moment to consider our President, our chosen representative to the world community, and his conversational adroitness. We despair.</p>
<p>Best regards,<br />
Reed</p>
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		<title>By: KW Morrow</title>
		<link>http://troutunderground.com/2007/06/29/how-do-we-protect-fly-fishing-from-the-french/comment-page-1/#comment-9618</link>
		<dc:creator>KW Morrow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jun 2007 18:25:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://troutunderground.com/2007/06/29/how-do-we-protect-fly-fishing-from-the-french/#comment-9618</guid>
		<description>Tom,

I&#039;ve been wondering about all this shrinking/growing talk lately, so I went to some authoritative market research organizations for answers.

According to the Fly Fishing Market in the U.S. survey, there has been an 18.1% growth in fly fishing equipment and clothing sales since 1998.

But conversely, the percentage of Americans who fly fish have dropped by more than 12% during the same basic time span. (USFWS data corroborated by FFRTA and other outdoor industry market research orgs)

So fewer people are spending more money...considerably fewer and considerably more!

So the bottom line is that profitability for the mfg&#039;s has INCREASED with fewer consumers who are easier to reach buying more stuff.

The whole notion of needing hype and blatant commercialism to ward off doom is a myth propagated by the few who support the tournament nonsense and the hyper-mercantilism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom,</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been wondering about all this shrinking/growing talk lately, so I went to some authoritative market research organizations for answers.</p>
<p>According to the Fly Fishing Market in the U.S. survey, there has been an 18.1% growth in fly fishing equipment and clothing sales since 1998.</p>
<p>But conversely, the percentage of Americans who fly fish have dropped by more than 12% during the same basic time span. (USFWS data corroborated by FFRTA and other outdoor industry market research orgs)</p>
<p>So fewer people are spending more money&#8230;considerably fewer and considerably more!</p>
<p>So the bottom line is that profitability for the mfg&#8217;s has INCREASED with fewer consumers who are easier to reach buying more stuff.</p>
<p>The whole notion of needing hype and blatant commercialism to ward off doom is a myth propagated by the few who support the tournament nonsense and the hyper-mercantilism.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Chandler</title>
		<link>http://troutunderground.com/2007/06/29/how-do-we-protect-fly-fishing-from-the-french/comment-page-1/#comment-9617</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Chandler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jun 2007 17:51:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://troutunderground.com/2007/06/29/how-do-we-protect-fly-fishing-from-the-french/#comment-9617</guid>
		<description>Some of what we&#039;re seeing in the industry (the interest in tournaments and the AFFTA&#039;s attempt to challenge the existing consumer trade show in Denver) is likely the result of a slowly shrinking revenue stream.

Face it; during the boom years, the more expensive it was, the better it sold. Those years are over, and you can&#039;t support a whole industry on $650 fly rods with lifetime warranties.

&quot;What&#039;s next&quot; the manufacturers wonder -- their eyes gazing longingly at the hyper-merchandising frenzy that is competitive bass fishing...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some of what we&#8217;re seeing in the industry (the interest in tournaments and the AFFTA&#8217;s attempt to challenge the existing consumer trade show in Denver) is likely the result of a slowly shrinking revenue stream.</p>
<p>Face it; during the boom years, the more expensive it was, the better it sold. Those years are over, and you can&#8217;t support a whole industry on $650 fly rods with lifetime warranties.</p>
<p>&#8220;What&#8217;s next&#8221; the manufacturers wonder &#8212; their eyes gazing longingly at the hyper-merchandising frenzy that is competitive bass fishing&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: KW Morrow</title>
		<link>http://troutunderground.com/2007/06/29/how-do-we-protect-fly-fishing-from-the-french/comment-page-1/#comment-9611</link>
		<dc:creator>KW Morrow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jun 2007 16:34:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://troutunderground.com/2007/06/29/how-do-we-protect-fly-fishing-from-the-french/#comment-9611</guid>
		<description>I plan to do my little part to starve competitive fly fishing in the US to death.  I hope you all will join me.  Makes as much sense as fat free butter.

I wonder how many of us even WANT fly fishing to &quot;mushroom?&quot;  I sure don&#039;t.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I plan to do my little part to starve competitive fly fishing in the US to death.  I hope you all will join me.  Makes as much sense as fat free butter.</p>
<p>I wonder how many of us even WANT fly fishing to &#8220;mushroom?&#8221;  I sure don&#8217;t.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Daly</title>
		<link>http://troutunderground.com/2007/06/29/how-do-we-protect-fly-fishing-from-the-french/comment-page-1/#comment-9604</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Daly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jun 2007 13:46:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://troutunderground.com/2007/06/29/how-do-we-protect-fly-fishing-from-the-french/#comment-9604</guid>
		<description>As a lifelong Denverite, I hope Charlie&#039;s thinking isn&#039;t terribly representative of flyfishers in this clime. Maybe he thinks France is part of &quot;Old Europe&quot;. I hope nobody is testing for asprin, as it is an integral part of my drug taking. And finally I&#039;ll have Zin if you don&#039;t mind?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a lifelong Denverite, I hope Charlie&#8217;s thinking isn&#8217;t terribly representative of flyfishers in this clime. Maybe he thinks France is part of &#8220;Old Europe&#8221;. I hope nobody is testing for asprin, as it is an integral part of my drug taking. And finally I&#8217;ll have Zin if you don&#8217;t mind?</p>
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